Microsoft Visual Studio 2015 Supports Targeting Linux

[zezba9000]

Well, I dont really know, I just know that QTCreator and KDevelop are the IDEs to use under Linux and I pretty much like them. The thing with normaly you use Blueprints: No not really.... Blueprints dont give you all the freedom, I had to use C++ pretty often and even did runtime modifications.
What bugs me about Visual Studio:
* Slow & often not functional Intellisense
* Slow UI in general
* Gigantic overhead of stuff you never use
* Extremly inefficent search in solutions

And the Community Edition is a little bit buggy for me (target selection greyed out).

However, I have to say I never used the Debugger, cause I never needed too (yet).

I would love to see MonoDevelop in supporting C++... Super useful during Unity3D development.

FYI MonoDevelop does support C++, not sure how it compares to others as C# is my focus.
Normally when you use native code (write plugins) with Unity you need to be using the native IDE for that platform xCode, Android Studio ect.

Yes iv'e heard good things about KDevelop for C++ and that is probably a good choice for Linux idk about Windows. I use Visual Studios for C# and C++ on Windows and MonoDevelop for C# and C++ on Linux and OSX.
For Visual Studios 2013 Community Edition you need to make sure you're on Update 4. Update 5 fixes bunches of stuff but isn't out yet. Although if you use Unity3D and target WinRT platforms you need to be using Update 5 CTP3 until the real thing comes out.

- UI is slow the first time you open the program. Menus and Windows get compiled and loaded as needed. After that things you keep using run fast. For C# projects after things load Intellisense is super fast. For C++ yes its a bit slower (maybe someone knows why?). I'm a Unity3D developer and thus Visual Studios is far more productive than anything else. Personally I would never want to write a large app without memory safety.

In short when it comes to C++ you have a ton of options and only a handful work well is my guess. For C# you only have two and both those options work very well.

[zezba9000]

Well... While I agree with the rest of your post I have one quibble. The WPF team is thinking about but is currently not in favour of open sourcing WPF at this time, because they need to figure out how they'd want to handle the release engineering and so on. There is a strong possibility that BUILD2015 and its side effects will change their minds. Additionally I would not be surprised if there is pressure from Nadella to make Visual Studio proper crossplatform. So it's not coming yet, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a change of heart over the next year or so.

The problem is WPF is based on Windows tech only (Win32 APIs, Direct3D9, ect) which are not portable at all. It might be easier to make a whole new UI based on XAML but targeted to work with CoreFX. Its possible they might consider making a portable XAML based UI they can port say Visual Studios 2017 or something with... but its total speculation at this point.

[SystemCrasher]

FYI MonoDevelop does support C++, not sure how it compares to others as C# is my focus.

Ahh, btw... super-duper MS VS is so fucking "cool" when it comes to C/C++, that it is the ONLY shit which still does not supports C99 (!!!) fully. Hell yeah, 16 years later.

So what? If we take a look around, we can find bunch of VMWare idiots around opensource MESA who were dumbass enough to use MS VS and now are real second-class citizens of system software development. Who are unable to use even C99 while others are using far more recent C standard. So they are making WORST parts of MESA code. What a fucking shame. My personal wish: these MS faggots should not be allowed to commit to MESA at all. They pollute code with their antique shit (and they're well aware of it).

It came as far as some MSVS inclined morons are trying to replace builtin compiler with GCC and Clang. LOL. Just LOL. It's amusing how counterproductive MS zealots could be.

[zezba9000]

Teaching Microsuxx how to do opensource right? Eh, it's like teaching cows to dance!

So these proprietary faggots who promote locked boot loaders and never bothered self to make .NET really crossplatform (ranging from MS-inclined MZ PE binaries as file format, making favor to windows, up to lack of truly crossplatform UI toolkit) would now try to mimic opensource? Haha, that's something more fancy than dancing cow.

You need only do the most basic research to find out why your assertion is false:
CoreCLR (Runtime): https://github.com/dotnet/coreclr
CoreFX (Frameworks): https://github.com/dotnet/corefx
Roslyn (C# Compiler): https://github.com/dotnet/roslyn

While MS isn't perfect as a company the people developing tech aren't stupid and make great things sometimes.

[zezba9000]

Ahh, btw... super-duper MS VS is so fucking "cool" when it comes to C/C++, that it is the ONLY shit which still does not supports C99 (!!!) fully. Hell yeah, 16 years later.

So what? If we take a look around, we can find bunch of VMWare idiots around opensource MESA who were dumbass enough to use MS VS and now are real second-class citizens of system software development. Who are unable to use even C99 while others are using far more recent C standard. So they are making WORST parts of MESA code. What a fucking shame. My personal wish: these MS faggots should not be allowed to commit to MESA at all. They pollute code with their antique shit (and they're well aware of it).

I think you are being extreme but in short I wish the GCC and Clang were what MS used (problem solved). I'm not sure how easy this would be for WinRT though as it uses a different ABI type. The C++ world is a mess, kinda like javaScript and HTML... everyone trying to make a buck by reinventing the wheel. O the capitalist religion....

[zezba9000]

Oh snap! Dear MS VS users, please fuckoff and keep your shit in winduz. You're not welcome guests. Especially when using this approach.

What do you think VS is able to target on Linux? What the phoronix article fails to mention is it simply allows you to build CoreCLR apps or ASP.NET services of which are all fully Open Source. No wonder Linux desktop users are so fragmented, you don't even know what you're arguing for as you don't take the time to look at what others have made. Yes it sucks the world is not yet a global library but the only way to fix it is to negate it. No one is making the Linux dev enviroment less rich, in fact its just the opposite... so what on earth is wrong with that.

[smitty3268]

I think you are being extreme but in short I wish the GCC and Clang were what MS used (problem solved). I'm not sure how easy this would be for WinRT though as it uses a different ABI type. The C++ world is a mess, kinda like javaScript and HTML... everyone trying to make a buck by reinventing the wheel. O the capitalist religion....

MS pretty much abandoned advancing C support a long time ago, and focused almost entirely on C++. Their C++ support isn't all that bad - complaining that their C support sucks is true but kind of missing the point.

[Luke_Wolf]

The problem is WPF is based on Windows tech only (Win32 APIs, Direct3D9, ect) which are not portable at all. It might be easier to make a whole new UI based on XAML but targeted to work with CoreFX. Its possible they might consider making a portable XAML based UI they can port say Visual Studios 2017 or something with... but its total speculation at this point.

They're making the render backend modular so that they can support DX11 (and presumably DX12), which means that a render backend could in principle be written in OpenGL or Vulkan. As far as Win32 dependencies goes, well CoreCLR has/had the same problem, and now CoreCLR has initial ports for Linux, OS X, and FreeBSD, and the plans appear to be to solve most of the remaining win32 dependencies by moving all the code that operates at runtime into C#. I don't know what WPF looks like internally but I would imagine if the CLR could get it over it, that they can too.

[zezba9000]

They're making the render backend modular so that they can support DX11 (and presumably DX12), which means that a render backend could in principle be written in OpenGL or Vulkan. As far as Win32 dependencies goes, well CoreCLR has/had the same problem, and now CoreCLR has initial ports for Linux, OS X, and FreeBSD, and the plans appear to be to solve most of the remaining win32 dependencies by moving all the code that operates at runtime into C#. I don't know what WPF looks like internally but I would imagine if the CLR could get it over it, that they can too.

Well it would be cool if you're right. Making tool apps in WPF/XAML would be very useful. Way better then Cocoa. QT seems good but I don't like there editor at all.
I think you might be confusing CoreCLR with CoreFX though. CoreFX is all the framework libraries that makes the lang useful. Like "System.Console.WriteLine(...);" ect. CoreFX even has specific Win32 libs for special OS tasks and one for Posix to I think. Its porting everything to CoreFX thats the real issue I think. The only runtime features CoreCLR doesn't support .NET did is Application Domains or Code Access Security: http://www.dotnetfoundation.org/netcore5
Not sure if WPF used any of that.

[SystemCrasher]

You need only do the most basic research to find out why your assertion is false:
CoreCLR (Runtime): https://github.com/dotnet/coreclr
CoreFX (Frameworks): https://github.com/dotnet/corefx
Roslyn (C# Compiler): https://github.com/dotnet/roslyn

And you need to stop being retarded. Where can I find some crossplatform set of widgets? Which would present on every supported OS by default, as long as .NET is installed? None? Then mumbling about something crossplatform is blatant bullshit, at least for GUI programs. So far MS throwing out leftovers and scrap and keeps anything valuable closed. I wish them luck with this approach . Do they honestly think people in Linux are in urgent need of their leftovers and scrap?

While MS isn't perfect as a company the people developing tech aren't stupid and make great things sometimes.

Sure, sometimes MS did some fancy things in the past. NT4 and win2k were nice. Unfortunately MS has decided to completely overtake PC as platform. First they killed system programming by their exceptionally hostile approaches (so ReactOS now looks like real failboat due to lack of adequate kernel devs). But it had funny costs: people just started to develop low level parts of other OSes, where they're not locked out. Linux emerged and now it is noteworthy competitor. Which also supports far more hardware. You see, WinPhone suxx at ARM SoCs support. It was Linux who was able to support all these dozens of SoCs made by dozens of companies. And MS only supports few SoCs. Hey, Microsoft, payback time! Now they should suffer for their hostile monopolistic decisions, tee-hee.

MS also killed most of filesystems development with their awful IFS DDK policy. Yet it had price, too. Now MS uses disk techs from 90s and they suck hard when it comes to filesystems. And only some few silly and useless parking hostings are using MS win as server OS to keep some place in web statistics. Everyone else prefers better OSes. It comes as far as MS using Linux based systems from AKAMAI CDN to serve their downloads. Sure, Linux is not stuck in 90s in terms of filesystems, net and so on. Since MS owns data centers and can get unlimited windows licenses, this surely indicates Windows internals and MS infrastructure are crap and simply uncompetitive.

And of course MS started DRM shit crusade, beginning from mandatory activation in XP and ending locking down boot loaders and BIOS as of 2015. So they are ones who killed PC as open platform where everyone is welcome. Now PC is treacherous MS-inclined shit, where MS decides what one can or can't do. And then they mumble something about carma? Hmmph! They should mumble about double standards instead.