Microsoft Visual Studio 2015 Supports Targeting Linux

[DanLamb]

A few points:

Linux is in a very different decentralized culture, where you can get all your tools from very different vendors, and most of them try to interop well. Microsoft is notoriously the big, single vendor solution. Things like Visual Studio, C#, and .NET are all designed explicitly for a very Microsoft only ecosystem. C# was really not intended as a general purpose language to be used outside of the Microsoft ecosystem. You can do it, and I think for certain niche cases, specifically making a Unity game, it's a great choice. But I would also stress that I don't see C#, .NET, or Visual Studio as having any particular value outside of the Microsoft ecosystem.

There are loads of Microsoft fans who are passionate about Visual Studio. But I suspect much of its strength was that it was so focused on Microsoft only solutions. I've been a heavy Visual Studio user for many years, but I don't see that standing up favorably against the more established multi-paradigm IDEs like JetBrains, Eclipse, or emacs.

[AHSauge]

Learn to use unit tests and simulations. Debuggers are pretty lame when it comes to heavy threading.

Everything I do is always compiled release mode.
At least on linux I can selectively compile specific object files in debug mode when I really have to.
And thankfully I've been able to recreate any threading related crashes on both windows and linux, the only expection to that being the platform specific thread and process management pieces I've cooked up which were very manageable using....simulation!

I think its been at least 4 years since the last time I actually did breakpoints and instruction stepping. Typically I try to force core dumps through unit test/simulation and then use a debugger to inspect state, although many times I prefer tossing in prints to do the same.

Then I can actually add the test/simulation to my battery of tests.

I don't know what you're developing, but I'd say you're pretty lucky if you can get away with unit tests (even having them at all!), core dumps and prints. Unit test and such is great and all, but in my line of work at least, have to deal with old code without that (or any documentation for that matter). I've never counted, but the project I'm working on probably has about a million or so lines of code. Barely anything has unit tests and most date back to the late 90's or early 00's. When complex simulation code cease to work, you want the debugger, you want breakpoints and you want them both because you're scratching you're head wondering how on earth this section of the code is even being executed. Very obviously inefficient, but that's old code for you.
I don't disagree with you regards to heavy threading though. Crashes due to threading are usually complex and quite sensitive to timing. Letting it crash and get something useful out of the dump is the way to go, or just do code inspection. Then again, said project I'm working on doesn't really contain that many threads due to it's age.

Btw, why the need for selectively compile specific objects file in debug? We generally can build dlls in Release with no op., and that seems to work sufficiently for dumps from production environments.

PS: I'm in heaven when I develop at home. I would love it if work actually jumped over to Linux.

[Nille]

@SystemCrasher sounds like a bunch of bullshit.

[SystemCrasher]

LOL. Believe me, .NET devs are quite happy with their job prospects right now.

Oh lol, I noticed how they're happy here on phoronix . Also I can see so much successful web projects using ASP.NET, of course! . And if someone in mood for success story from .NET guys, London Stock Exchange story is real fun XD.

Also, .NET devs are so funny with their mumbling about choice. Yet, most .NET/M$ fucks never care if their workflows are ok for anyone else, especially using different OSes. They always assume One OS, One Dev Tool and One Fuhrer, ahem, Vendor. Needless to say, such devs are inherently incapable of writing anything Linux-based right. They ignore any practices different from windows, stubborn at learning new powerful tools (e.g. GIT), bad at automating things (literally scared of console and can't automate even simplest things like downloading that damn file at 6AM from HTTP server), suck very hard at securing server and app, etc. And in web, 1-2 PHP coders can do in a week same site which 5-6 .NET nuts would do for month. Not to mention .NET version will be 5 times slower and damn hard to deploy/configure. It costs 10+ times more money, yet result often happens to be a disaster. Same goes for azure, which tends to work worse than my $5 VDS but costs orders of magnitude more. So it not looks surprising to see Linux servers at AKAMAI CDN are serving M$ winduz downloads at this point .

Such "web devs" and "hosters" should burn in hell, with all their ASP, .NET and ASP.NET alltogether. This probably explains why ASP.NET so unpopular and why there is almost no opensource solutions written in ASP.NET. I've been unlucky enough to work with .NET team and so I know how it works. No, dudes, you should really follow dinosaurs.

@SystemCrasher Or BTW ASP.NET is way faster (about 5x) then PHP FYI: http://www.wrensoft.com/zoom/benchmarks.html
Have fun...

Yeah, its always like this: cool in synthetic use cases. Sucks hard in real world. Technically, .NET could execute code faster, sure. But it does not translates directly into page load times. It is page load times what really counts, not your synthetic shit. Not to mention there are no decent frameworks, so ASP.NET pages tend to look like piece of shit and work like shit, no matter what .NET nuts would try. It's just amazing how MS managed to write stockpiles of code which takes literally hours to install and upgrade, while results aren't impressive at all.

This is so asinine. Do you also realize they are both Open Source? So people can have choices but just not if you don't like that choice... what you see is not what is as its solely based on your emotional bias.

Here we met difference between openness and liberty. Open != free (as in freedom) and while MS pedaling openness so much, they are silent about freedoms. So what's the difference? With MS you can still expect dictatorship, vendor locks, etc. That's what actually suxx about MS, no matter if they open source or not - it makes use of their products nightmare.

[kpedersen]

Microsoft's C++/clr (:safe) .NET compiler is really interesting to me since it provides RAII memory management in a garbage collected language. If Microsoft would open-source that compiler, I would definitely switch over from Java for our non-native projects.

[corzo]

#1 .NET is NOT a lang, its a runtime and is fully Open Source under Apache-2. Get over it people things change.
#2 C#, VB & J# are also all fully Open Source. Again get over it.
#3 Java not allowing proper Vector and mathematical types is just plain blindness on there part.
#4 "Java" as a lang is NOT "Open" and is why Oracle has tried to sue others for using it, like Google.

Of course .net is not a language. It's a framework. But unlike java, it's not fully open-source: libraries specific to the client, such as WPF, forms... are parts of .net and they're not open source. If I'm wrong, please send me a link for downloading the code.

Java is open and nobody has ever been sued for using java. They've been sued for trying to create alternative incompatible implementations, like when microsoft tried to pervert java with this joke called visual j++ back in the nineties.

[Luke_Wolf]

Yes it does. Have you ever used it? God how many brain cells do people have on this forum... this is crazy stupid.
Just install it. Works on OSX and Linux.

While Monodevelop is wonderful for C# and when I'm writing pure C# I prefer it to VS (It has a lot of functionality for free that I would have to pay for plugins for VS (automatic style enforcement, refactoring suggestions, etc, etc, etc...)), the last time I played around with C++ in it I found it lacking vs Qt Creator. Now I don't blame the Monodevelop guys at all given that frankly it's an IDE for .NET, but until they integrate CLang... there's better tools out there for the purpose. That said once Qt# is finished (https://github.com/ddobrev/QtSharp) I won't have much purpose for C++ anymore.

[zezba9000]

From https://www.visualstudio.com/en-us/n...review-vs.aspx

"ASP.NET 5 runs on OS X and Linux with the Mono runtime."

It's an ASP.NET thing. Don't expect actual Linux binaries outside of that.

This is only a temp solution until .NET Core is ready later this year. Visual Studios 2015 should introduce some of it and more is sure to come after.
They are just supporting a solution that already exists for people who want it now. .NET core is much faster then Mono, my guess is 3x-5x as fast depending on my tests iv'e run in the past.

Also no you are wrong, .NET Core is much more then ASP.NET. Thats just there focus right now as they make money with Azure servers. Iv'e compiled and run .NET Core and it is designed to run as a standalone app. In fact its whats used in WinRT (Win8 and WP8). Its now just become open and being ported to other environments.

[zezba9000]

Yeah, that's why I was talking about incomplete implementation. The full .net framework is very far from being cross-platform and open source, and that's the reason it's well behind all those existing alternatives in the linux world.

You don't want the "full-.NET" on Linux or OSX as it was never designed for that. .NET Core as it is now is the "FULL" future .NET runtime with a faster JIT, better 64bit support and ARM support. Both the Windows (packaged installer version) of .NET and .NET Core (packaged with your app version) will both share the same runtime and JIT ect. .NET Core FX (aka the framework) will be fully portable and designed to run on Windows, Linux, OSX, ect. This is better not worse.

So no you're wrong, the .NET framework is already there with Mono but this is not a good approach to a framework. Thus CoreFX (.NET Core Framework) is VERY cross platform. Just go look at there github pages already.

[zezba9000]

No, MonoDevelop does not support C++, I dont know where you heard that:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1...xamarin-studio

Yes it does. Have you ever used it? God how many brain cells do people have on this forum... this is crazy stupid.
Just install it. Works on OSX and Linux.