DragonFlyBSD Lands New EXT2/3/4 File-System Driver

[starshipeleven]

Users tend to mirror leaders of their favorite projects.

Careful, that there are a lot of loud mouth primadonnas in charge of BSDs too.

That same UFS2 support in there is literally useless, unless you happen to have 15 years old FreeBSD install somewhere you want to access. It hasn't seen any work, excepting maintenance since before last decade. Meanwhile on-disk-formats have changed in all the BSD's. But you can claim you have one more file system "supported", dont ya?

That does not speak very nicely of any of the BSDs, changing the on-disk format for a basic filesystem is regrettable.

How many other file systems there are of the same ilk? "supported" but next to useless?Take a look at default kernel configs and see what's by default enabled - and that's much more limited selection. But that gives you plain truth.

I agree on the general statement that there are bullshit or even barely maintained filesystems in Linux, although the good ones with some form of support are still more than those in other OSes.

But looking at "default kernel configs" is bullshit, there are A LOT of features that only make sense for some types of hardware, or some architecture or some usecases. You can't assume that all stuff that isn't on by default is barely maintained and broken.

[aht0]

I don't get it, are you implying Torvalds or Hartman would stop me from sending patches because they implement a filesystem from a BSD? AFAIK they are absolutely fine with it as long as it's good quality and someone is maintaining it, which is not always the case.

You seem to be mixing up "lack of maintainers" with "high-horse attitude" because that suits your narrative of BSDs being unjustly persecuted and demoted by Teh Big Evil Penguin.

Nope, I am simply suggesting nothing more or less than NIH syndrome combined with sense of superiority and incompetence over subject matter when it comes to OS'es they bash, displayed from top-down. Starting from top where leaders give advice that does not pertain to reality (Torvalds article about ZFS) or display outright hostility (Kroah-Hartmann, Poettering etc) in some form. That follows down to lots of end users.

Ages a go I found following from FreeBSD Forums where this very same was discussed. Few very descriptive posts that sum it nicely. (https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/w...r-linux.40619/)

When people choose to "hate" the alternatives to their own choices, it's usually down to either immaturity or fundamentalist extremism.

In the case of hatred of anything non-Linux, it's probably a combination of the two: immature Linux kiddies with a "mine is better than yours" mentality and/or their almost religious adherence to the fundamentalist ideals of people like RMS.

Some people get an emotional kick from hating something. It takes a well balanced person to avoid that temptation and just live-and-let-live.

or

I've used both over the past 18 years. I still have a couple of Linux boxes running business applications and a few FreeBSD boxes doing Internet facing services.

In my view a few factors influence this...

• Linux has a very public figurehead, Linus Torvalds. Which makes the OS seem more like a "people's OS" - whereas FreeBSD originates from an abstract "FreeBSD core" team. A bit like commercial software. Never mind that in reality both have thousands of developers - Linux has a prominent public face. The irony is that Linux is a lot more of a dictatorship (the kernel at least) than FreeBSD is.
• There's a lot of hype surrounding the GPL, and Linux is GPL. For better or worse (personally, I believe better) FreeBSD is under the BSD license, which enables commercial use of the code without requirement to contribute back modifications.
• Linux has had a lot more time and energy spent on UI fluff, as there are multiple competing distributions; the installer is the first thing people see and in the Linux world a flash installer is critical for your distribution to be in with a shot. Plenty of Linux users haven't done much technical stuff with the OS beyond installing it these days, and in their view, the FreeBSD installer sucks. Thus, the OS must suck!
• Due to the popularity (in part due to the slick installers), there is more commercial software support (games and whatnot) and driver support for Linux. Thus "FreeBSD sucks!" because it didn't work out of the box with some user's hardware.
• Most of the "haters" have never used the OS and are just bashing it because it is "cool" to do so among their peer noobs.
• Apple make use of a few FreeBSD components in OS X. In a Linux user's eyes, Apple are evil, and thus FreeBSD is evil by association.
• And of course... the "BSD is dying!" meme from a decade or more ago referring to some Netcraft survey.

That there's public threads discussing this very thing should suggest it's not just MY NARRATIVE.
Oh, or just keep an eye on future BSD-related threads here in Phoronix, almost every BSD-related thread there's somebody like pal666 or Volta popping up and spreading toxicity..
Even new users have been created on occasion https://www.phoronix.com/forums/memb...sd-sucks-dicks
"my narrative, lol".

[aht0]

As someone in a movie said "I am hard, but I am fair! There is no racial bigotry here! I do not look down on ****s, ****s, wops, or greasers. Here you are all equally worthless! "

The only ones that matter in this case is midsize or larger company, I mean someone that can fork off some serious cash to employ a small team of cis white males to finish development and then port the filesystem to Linux. That's the ones I was talking about with my "none is giving a crap about HAMMER2" statement.
Everyone else is irrelevant. You can take thousands of people wishing for stuff in a forum, nothing will ever happen.

I posted a link pointing to Hammer driver port for Linux. Authored by - and lemme tell you, coincidents are hell - one Tomohiro Kusumi.. sounds Japanese, not "cis white male" at all.

It's not only racist, it's also outright stupid. Plenty of Asian names among devs. Or are you suggesting that companies like Samsung or any of Chinese hardware vendors has "cis white males finishing development"?

[k1e0x]

I''m guessing that besides FAT the only other filesystem supported well and widely across OSs is ISO 9660. Too bad it's not really suitable as general filesystem for file sharing purposes (e.g. on memory sticks it's read only). UDF would work but it's not widely supported.

You don't need to use FAT32, ZFS is cross platform. FreeBSD, Linux, MacOS, Windows & Solaris/Illumos

If you format a USB stick or something remember to use "zpool create -d ..." So that it's more compatible with older versions of ZFS.

[starshipeleven]

You seem to be mixing up "lack of maintainers" with "high-horse attitude" because that suits your narrative of BSDs being unjustly persecuted and demoted by Teh Big Evil Penguin.

HELP HELP I'm being oppressed!

[angrypie]

Oh it has lots to do with attitude, starting from top down (Torvalds, Hartmann.. etc), ending with, well - you. Users tend to mirror leaders of their favorite projects.

I don't get it, are you implying Torvalds or Hartman would stop me from sending patches because they implement a filesystem from a BSD? AFAIK they are absolutely fine with it as long as it's good quality and someone is maintaining it, which is not always the case.

You seem to be mixing up "lack of maintainers" with "high-horse attitude" because that suits your narrative of BSDs being unjustly persecuted and demoted by Teh Big Evil Penguin.

[starshipeleven]

Illumos itself was at fault by being too timid accepting PR's. That, not mystical technical merits of Linux kernel were the reason of switch.

Yeah sure, whatever you say. The userbase (and I mean the businness-side) on Linux is larger because perhaps they like Linux more for some reason, therefore also the ZoL community was larger than a mostly-dead Unix upstream of mostly-dead Unix operating systems.

And ZoL happened even if Torvalds himself does not want/like ZFS. So if there is enough companies behind something, it will get done.

I am curious, are you selectively de-humanizing certain people in your mind?

To avoid that, I always de-humanize everyone, so I'm still fair.
As someone in a movie said "I am hard, but I am fair! There is no racial bigotry here! I do not look down on ****s, ****s, wops, or greasers. Here you are all equally worthless! "

The only ones that matter in this case is midsize or larger company, I mean someone that can fork off some serious cash to employ a small team of cis white males to finish development and then port the filesystem to Linux. That's the ones I was talking about with my "none is giving a crap about HAMMER2" statement.
Everyone else is irrelevant. You can take thousands of people wishing for stuff in a forum, nothing will ever happen.

[aht0]

Yeah because this attitude stopped people from porting ZFS and this out-of-tree effort from becoming the OpenZFS upstream, dethroning Illumos.

Face it, none is giving a crap about HAMMER2.

Illumos itself was at fault by being too timid accepting PR's. That, not mystical technical merits of Linux kernel were the reason of switch.

I am curious, are you selectively de-humanizing certain people in your mind? There was guy literally half a dozen posts earlier asking about H2. I think he would count as "someone"?

[aht0]

it has nothing to do with attitude. code doesn't write itself, somebody has to go and write it. if you need hammer2 driver for linux, you have to write it or pay someone to write it. linux supports dozens of filesystem, most of them were not invented in linux. they just had more demand than clueless form posts. xfs, being pushed by redhat, was invented in irix

Oh it has lots to do with attitude, starting from top down (Torvalds, Hartmann.. etc), ending with, well - you. Users tend to mirror leaders of their favorite projects.

Linux's "supporting dozens of filesystems" is a hype. Huge percentage of these "supported" file systems are historic cases, experimental ports (often read-only) and so forth. Read: lot are useless for anything except for bragging rights. That same UFS2 support in there is literally useless, unless you happen to have 15 years old FreeBSD install somewhere you want to access. It hasn't seen any work, excepting maintenance since before last decade. Meanwhile on-disk-formats have changed in all the BSD's. But you can claim you have one more file system "supported", dont ya?

How many other file systems there are of the same ilk? "supported" but next to useless? Take a look at default kernel configs and see what's by default enabled - and that's much more limited selection. But that gives you plain truth.

FYI: there's actually current (last updated on April 26th 2020) Hammer v1 (userspace)driver for Linux (https://github.com/kusumi/lh1)
There are couple more I know of which were abandoned by authors

[starshipeleven]

The gaming aspect comes from random geeks at home using this cool Linux stuff to play games and multimedia and then using that knowledge to make decisions in their corporate life.

Geeks don't decide in corporate life. The moment it's not a startup anymore you get the suits in management.