DragonFlyBSD Lands New EXT2/3/4 File-System Driver

[pal666]

Oh it has lots to do with attitude, starting from top down (Torvalds, Hartmann.. etc), ending with, well - you. Users tend to mirror leaders of their favorite projects.

you are projecting

Linux's "supporting dozens of filesystems" is a hype.

it's a fact. it supports dozens of filesystems not invented in linux, i.e. there's no nih syndrome involved.

Huge percentage of these "supported" file systems are historic cases, experimental ports (often read-only) and so forth

that takes us back to my previous post: code doesn't write itself. if you need your fs to improve, you have to do it

. Read: lot are useless for anything except for bragging rights.

that's something that bsd idiots do

That same UFS2 support in there is literally useless, unless you happen to have 15 years old FreeBSD install somewhere you want to access. It hasn't seen any work, excepting maintenance since before last decade. Meanwhile on-disk-formats have changed in all the BSD's. But you can claim you have one more file system "supported", dont ya?

because bsd idiots complain instead of writing code. i've already given you irix xfs example.

Take a look at default kernel configs and see what's by default enabled - and that's much more limited selection. But that gives you plain truth.

$ ls /lib/modules/5.7.8-200.fc32.x86_64/kernel/fs/ -1
9p
affs
afs
befs
binfmt_misc.ko.xz
btrfs
cachefiles
ceph
cifs
coda
cramfs
dlm
ecryptfs
erofs
exfat
f2fs
fat
fscache
fuse
gfs2
hfs
hfsplus
isofs
jffs2
jfs
lockd
minix
nfs
nfs_common
nfsd
nilfs2
nls
ocfs2
orangefs
overlayfs
pstore
reiserfs
romfs
squashfs
sysv
ubifs
udf
ufs
vboxsf
xfs

FYI: there's actually current (last updated on April 26th 2020) Hammer v1 (userspace)driver for Linux (https://github.com/kusumi/lh1)
There are couple more I know of which were abandoned by authors

most common reason for startup failure is "no market need"

[aht0]

Careful, that there are a lot of loud mouth primadonnas in charge of BSDs too.

I can only think of Theo de Raadt. Otherwise generally there's "live and let live" and/or "No interest in what they do" attitude towards Linux.

That does not speak very nicely of any of the BSDs, changing the on-disk format for a basic filesystem is regrettable.

Times and computers were much different when UFS was originally designed. At some point (could have been 2013) data structure alignment was altered (getdents system call was adapted to 64-bit ino_t). That in turn forced change in on-disk format. Pile on top NFSv4 ACL's, Soft Updates+Journal, snapshots etc which were added after Linux's UFS implementation went on "maintenance-only" mode and you should get the picture.

I agree on the general statement that there are bullshit or even barely maintained filesystems in Linux, although the good ones with some form of support are still more than those in other OSes.

But looking at "default kernel configs" is bullshit, there are A LOT of features that only make sense for some types of hardware, or some architecture or some usecases. You can't assume that all stuff that isn't on by default is barely maintained and broken.

Default kernel config gives you rough estimation about what an average user is thought to be needing. From that POV it's usable metric tho.

[k1e0x]

NetFlix, uses and abuse of BSD, Facebook frontends, the same,
A lot of companies goes with BSD for firewalls/Load Balancers duo to the excellent network stack, and security they offer..

But above all, I believe BSD starts to be the good old GNU/Linux, with superb network, and security, and ofcourse the KISS aspect of it,
GNU/Linux starts to be mud waters, troublesome, a hog, and BSD is capitalizing on that, in the server space..

Because in the server space you want something practical, functional, logic, secure, and well implemented..without big burden/complex init systems above it..
The server is there to rock,
Not the waist sysadmins time, and waist processing power/resources doing ...what people don't want too..

It's not just Netflix, tho that is a well known one, and pretty impressive really. What I'm talking about is the big products you'd never hear of. (sorry if I'm vague, gotta be..) I mean like.. the kind of software where you can only sell it to a dozen customers in the world. You know.. like you have to be Walmart size to even need it. Some of that software is FreeBSD.

And I agree with a lot of what you said. Companies still need simple quick things. FreeBSD is a good fit there. So were as Unix itself isn't as popular as in the 80's and early 90's, unless you count Linux as Unix, (depends how hard you are squinting) FreeBSD itself is more popular today then ever.

[tuxd3v]

I've worked in the computing industry for over 25 years. I see more FreeBSD in deployment today than ever before. Why? not sure, if it's replacing other Unix's like Sun or HP or it fills some technical gap, or older engineers like it. There are a lot of commercial platforms based on it too. Expensive stuff you'd never know about unless you worked in the industry.

Use to be a rarity, I remember seeing one or two FreeBSD 4 box around.. and I also worked for a company that had OpenBSD deployments for firewall/VPN.. then around FreeBSD 8-9 release I started to see a lot more..

NetFlix, uses and abuse of BSD, Facebook frontends, the same,
A lot of companies goes with BSD for firewalls/Load Balancers duo to the excellent network stack, and security they offer..

But above all, I believe BSD starts to be the good old GNU/Linux, with superb network, and security, and ofcourse the KISS aspect of it,
GNU/Linux starts to be mud waters, troublesome, a hog, and BSD is capitalizing on that, in the server space..

Because in the server space you want something practical, functional, logic, secure, and well implemented..without big burden/complex init systems above it..
The server is there to rock,
Not the waist sysadmins time, and waist processing power/resources doing ...what people don't want too..

[k1e0x]

Well, that wouldn't really fly. I mean if I came to give presentation with my slideshow on a memory stick formated to ZFS and the computer had Windows 10, what would be the chances that it would either have ZFS support already or I would be allowed to install it? I could just as well format it to ext2 and the end result would be the same basically.

The real problem is that the two most successful desktop operating have really poor support for alternative file systems out of the box. Basically only those that Microsoft has forced us to use are widely supported anywhere and they were not selected based on their technical merits.

Mmmm.. It would work in a pinch. Windows is beta level for sure, but you just install the package here and ZFS commands and pools show up so zpool import -af and it will show up just as a regular Z:\ or whatever.

The beta'ness of windows isn't that ZFS will become corrupt, it's that it might bluescreen windows.. but other than that it works.

And yes that is the real problem.. Good news is ZFS is trying to fix that and it already runs really well on MacOS. I can't really think of any other FS other than ZFS and FAT that is supported across so many OS's.

[angrypie]

Even new users have been created on occasion https://www.phoronix.com/forums/memb...sd-sucks-dicks.

Is he wrong though? E.g., FreeBSD is exactly what Linux was in 1998-2001. Anything that runs on the a BSD runs just as well on Linux, so no point in using it unless you want native ZFS and don't want a illumos distro. The only non-stagnant BSD is DragonflyBSD.

BSD isn't dead, but on life support, since corporations feed on it for their own needs and give fuck all back. "Freedom!," you scream.

[Tomin]

You don't need to use FAT32, ZFS is cross platform. FreeBSD, Linux, MacOS, Windows & Solaris/Illumos

If you format a USB stick or something remember to use "zpool create -d ..." So that it's more compatible with older versions of ZFS.

Well, that wouldn't really fly. I mean if I came to give presentation with my slideshow on a memory stick formated to ZFS and the computer had Windows 10, what would be the chances that it would either have ZFS support already or I would be allowed to install it? I could just as well format it to ext2 and the end result would be the same basically.

The real problem is that the two most successful desktop operating have really poor support for alternative file systems out of the box. Basically only those that Microsoft has forced us to use are widely supported anywhere and they were not selected based on their technical merits.

[k1e0x]

Is your definition of "lots of end users" actually "around 20 assholes in a couple forums"?

Because I know of enough morons in the BSD camp too that like to piss on systemd, following the lead of bigger figures from BSD world

I've worked in the computing industry for over 25 years. I see more FreeBSD in deployment today than ever before. Why? not sure, if it's replacing other Unix's like Sun or HP or it fills some technical gap, or older engineers like it. There are a lot of commercial platforms based on it too. Expensive stuff you'd never know about unless you worked in the industry.

Use to be a rarity, I remember seeing one or two FreeBSD 4 box around.. and I also worked for a company that had OpenBSD deployments for firewall/VPN.. then around FreeBSD 8-9 release I started to see a lot more..

[starshipeleven]

Nope, I am simply suggesting nothing more or less than NIH syndrome combined with sense of superiority and incompetence over subject matter when it comes to OS'es they bash, displayed from top-down. Starting from top where leaders give advice that does not pertain to reality (Torvalds article about ZFS) or display outright hostility (Kroah-Hartmann, Poettering etc) in some form. That follows down to lots of end users.

Is your definition of "lots of end users" actually "around 20 assholes in a couple forums"?

Because I know of enough morons in the BSD camp too that like to piss on systemd, following the lead of bigger figures from BSD world

[starshipeleven]

I posted a link pointing to Hammer driver port for Linux.

It's an userspace application, not a true kernel driver, AND it's not anywhere near complete (because HAMMER2 really is not, it's a distributed filesystem, most features are still TODO for that, and he is just porting what there is).

I'm not pissing on his work, what he did is already great for a single man in his spare time.

But I'm talking of a serious effort to both finish the development on HAMMER2 and make a kernel-side driver.

ZFS is a kernel module, it's really NOT running in userspace.

Tomohiro Kusumi.. sounds Japanese, not "cis white male" at all.

Japanese and asian in general are still "cis white males" for sjws.
To not be "white" you need to have african or native american descent.
Or, in more simpler terms, yellow men don't exist for sjws, only white, black, reddish and brown.

It's not only racist, it's also outright stupid.

It sure is.

Plenty of Asian names among devs.

This is the reason why sjws are grouping them together with the "white", asian males are already pretty established in the industry, therefore they must be just as evil as true "white" males.

See for example the GNOME Outreachy bullshit racist sjw program's "invitation" of the race/gender of who should apply https://www.outreachy.org/apply/eligibility/

Outreachy expressly invites applicants who are women (both cis and trans), trans men, and genderqueer people to apply. We also expressly invite applications who are residents and nationals of the United States of America of any gender who are Black/African American, Hispanic/Latin@, Native American/American Indian, Alaska Native, Native Hawaiian, or Pacific Islander. Anyone who faces systemic bias or discrimination in the technology industry of their country is invited to apply.

Is there some "asian" in the list? No there is not.