Mark Shuttleworth Makes More Comments On Ubuntu GNOME, Mir, Convergence

[jacob]

Well I think they are mad because of Mark wasting everybody time with childish behavior like: If you don't obey our ideas we will make sure nobody uses either thing. A big F you community. It was going and is still going with stuff like snaps. This is only happening because Ubuntu has noticeable market share. Think about it.

And now instead of us see commercial software being packaged we have to wait another couple of years until Mark decides to pull the plug on snaps. Yeah, thanks Mark for free software, I guess.

So whose time exactly did Mark waste except his own?
And by the same token, what is the/your problem with snaps? Is it that every distro is allowed to create a package format except Ubuntu, or is it that no one has the right to introduce technologies into the Linux ecosystem except Saint RedHat?

[srakitnican]

Yea why not merge all snaps, flatpack and appimage.
Was Red Hat rejecting Canonical input? Was that the reason for Mir?

As for some toxic comments: I guess they're from typical Linux users: Overweight, frustrated, single male. If not ranting in forums watching porn. Never buys any software.

My conclusions are that AppImage is not similar to Flatpaks or Snaps, AppImage merely puts a program into a container for easier shipment which still have issues when client OS libraries does not match. Flatpaks and now snaps tend to solve this issue, so that you can run in theory an application on any distro no mater how old/new it is by bundling libraries with it.

[jacob]

Mark just labelled everyone with objections to Mir (even though there's several valid ones, Ranomier in post #95 provided a nice rundown) a "hater". What did you expect would happen? This round is on Mark.

That's not what I read in his post. He desservedly called a "hater" everyone who displayed a juvenile, irrational hate towards him for daring developing a piece of open source software that they could safely totally ignore if they were nit interested in it. It's the same zealots who have no problem with a dozen or so different desktops, who scream "choice! choice!" when it comes to systemd, but who would want you to believe that Mir was Hitler's own project. Valid technical arguments against Mir in various usecases were never a problem, but they have always been a drop in the ocean of sheer hate. I'm with Mark on this one and am very sad about the purported "community" who really behaves like a bunch of hysterical zealots.

[libv]

This is what i wrote in september 2013, when intel management was being that hater: "Intel & Mir: The point-of-view of a graphics driver developing bystander."

http://libv.livejournal.com/25325.html

[srakitnican]

@jacob

The problem with snaps (if not obvious yet) is that a publisher see a choice of two packaging format that btw should solve the issue that there is a single packaging format for Linux (the irony) and says:

A. Great we can package our software twice and learn two tools, or
B. Yeah we will yet to see about that

Mark is not wasting only his time, but everybody else because of this.


So, the right question is what Snaps have to offer that Flatpaks can't?

[Truth]

Allusions to "haters" and "toxicity" should be classified as a new form of fallacy, it's the common go to for individuals suffering from cognitive dissonance and so on to deflect attention away from their own mistakes, inadequacy and intransigence.

Open source might mean the freedom to do what you want (within reason), but sane individuals realise the value in open standards. Canonical have never been motivated by anything more than ego, control and potential monetisation.

[GreatEmerald]

I totally disagree. How is it possible to get a point across by not saying something? What I mean is, you can get a point across that you like a post by clicking the like button, but how does not clicking the like button get the point across that you don't like it?

I don't think every post has to be constructive, I think trying enforce that ideology is highly -destructive- because you miss a whole half of the truth. (edit: I was raised to believe that part-truths are just as wrong as lies.)

I just told you... Make a post that rebuts the other post. Then compare the likes both posts receive. It's not rocket science.

And no, insulting someone without giving any basis in facts is not "half of the truth".

[starshipeleven]

I feel the exact same way. I just can't recommend anybody joining this community anymore, it got so toxic (and sometimes you catch yourself being toxic, when responding to those people), I'm really considering using Linux only for Server and IOT stuff, because I don't see desktop going anywhere in Linux.

Yeah, because the community isn't the same on Windows or anywhere else, with fanboys, flamewars and all that. Nono, everyone loves Windows 8 and 10 and there are no flamewars still raging about them.

But keep thinking it's Linux-only just because Canonical's leader decided to use that as a scapegoat for his failure.

[GreatEmerald]

Canonical maintained all those Mir ports, so it's self-evident Canonical had the resources to maintain those Mir ports. Canonical has not cancelled Mir. Your arguments has lost a lot of steam.

No, they dropped initial support code. That's not the same as maintaining it. And while strictly speaking they didn't cancel Mir, it's now relegated to IoT where the maintenance burden is much, much smaller than that of a desktop. It's easily doable for Canonical now.

Sure. But I have a long trail of posts across a lot of social media sites in which I try to fight disinformation and hate with actual verifiable facts. At this point, my only reaction to the venomous spew that gets on me when the haters unzip and pull out their undersized hairy egos and wave them around in public is to politely acknowledge it and move on. I find a quiet and polite acceptance softens their excitement better than any other reaction.

Uh, no. Just pointing out that one post or another is "hate" is passive-aggressive AKA feeding the trolls. It's not constructive and doesn't make those you quoted any more likely to change how they are expressing themselves, but rather makes them snap back at you. Which you then use to reinforce your view that someone is a hater, even though you were the one who provoked such a response.

[starshipeleven]

As for some toxic comments: I guess they're from typical Forum trolls: Overweight, frustrated, single male. If not ranting in forums watching porn. Never buys any software.

fixed.

Because it's not like all trolls and software pirates are in Linux community, far from it.


Btw, you just admitted you are one by trolling on linux users. Congrats.