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  • Amazing mammoth thread. Nobody seemed to give a shit about Linux's live patching. Ideological bashing over systemd in completely irrelevant thread is so much more interesting.

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    • Originally posted by aht0 View Post
      Nobody seemed to give a shit about Linux's live patching.
      because thanks to systemd a
      vserver reboots between 3 and 10 seconds these days and due host updates you hot-migrate the workload anyways

      besides that there are a lot of packages besides the kernel which require restart nearly every service, a reboot is way cleaner and less work

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      • Originally posted by hreindl View Post
        without the exact output nobody knows what you did
        But I showed you what I did. If you want the output, do it yourself, it's that easy. (with the feb live iso)

        Obviously I'm not blaming you for not doing it, if you don't have the time or don't want to. But guess what? I don't care nor want to do it again either. Why the fuck should I do it anyway? I did not address you originally nor intended to convince you in the first place, so I honestly don't give a fuck either, anyone who is really desperate to see whether I'm lying or not can test it themselves with the February iso. It's that simple. Pure science, reproducible stuff, you know.

        Anyway it's clear arokh doesn't know what's he's talking about, or is using an old Arch install and talks big (while I specifically said the February live iso, at least 3 times), which is hilarious. I've no intent on wasting more time with his noob bullshit.

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        • Originally posted by Weasel View Post
          But I showed you what I did. If you want the output, do it yourself, it's that easy. (with the feb live iso)
          if you pretend something you have to prove it with the exact steps and return values you did

          any smart human being would be able to do so, especially in case of a virtual machine, but you are not a smart being to begin with

          a smart human would anyways have shouted against the package management system or the packager but given that you are proven as idiot...

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          • Originally posted by hreindl View Post

            because thanks to systemd a
            vserver reboots between 3 and 10 seconds these days and due host updates you hot-migrate the workload anyways

            besides that there are a lot of packages besides the kernel which require restart nearly every service, a reboot is way cleaner and less work
            So, you are saying it's not important because inherent package bloat in Linux. Which in turn is mitigated by systemd's faster boot times?

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            • Originally posted by aht0 View Post

              So, you are saying it's not important because inherent package bloat in Linux. Which in turn is mitigated by systemd's faster boot times?
              it has nothing to do with package bloat, problem is that most people are too stupid to realize that after updates for zlib, openssl, glib, libstdc and a dozen others you practically should restart every service or your update was completly useless

              without live patching all these idiots probably reboot sooner or later

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              • Originally posted by hreindl View Post
                it has nothing to do with package bloat, problem is that most people are too stupid to realize that after updates for zlib, openssl, glib, libstdc and a dozen others you practically should restart every service or your update was completly useless

                without live patching all these idiots probably reboot sooner or later
                As long as kernel's internal data structures have not changed, live patching does not concern packages at all..
                Say, you are live-patching from 4.4.0-70 to 4.4.0-73 <- it's the same kernel API-wise, with minor fixes applied. Nothing has changed which would require additional messing with external packages. Might be just fixes for couple of security bugs in the kernel.

                And since it's enterprise-feature (or more precisely: enterprise is most interested in it) because for them maintenance downtime equals large sums of lost money - I cannot figure out, why the hell are you categorizing it's potential users as "idiots". Enterprise sysadmins are not your Joe "where is the power button" Average.

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                • Originally posted by aht0 View Post
                  As long as kernel's internal data structures have not changed, live patching does not concern packages at all..
                  you didn't get the point!

                  there are way more other updates which requires reboot or restart everything with takes longer than kernel updates over the time and so nobody really gives a shit to save that one reboot on most setups

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                  • Originally posted by aht0 View Post
                    And since it's enterprise-feature (or more precisely: enterprise is most interested in it) because for them maintenance downtime equals large sums of lost money - I cannot figure out, why the hell are you categorizing it's potential users as "idiots". Enterprise sysadmins are not your Joe "where is the power button" Average.
                    BLA!

                    services which are that important are clustered anything and so there is nothing like "maintenance downtime equals large sums of lost money" or it's not enterprise at all

                    the point is that all this people which think uptime is a penis enlargement most of he time apply security updates but the services are still vulnerable because they have loaded the old library versions and hence they are idiots, when you have services which don't allow any downtime you have some sort of live-migration and hence there is no downtime because of a kernel update and a reboot

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                    • Originally posted by hreindl View Post
                      if you pretend something you have to prove it with the exact steps and return values you did

                      any smart human being would be able to do so, especially in case of a virtual machine, but you are not a smart being to begin with

                      a smart human would anyways have shouted against the package management system or the packager but given that you are proven as idiot...
                      No because the entire thing I posted here was just "out of my memories", I didn't sit down to copy the log when it happened, cause I didn't care, and this thread wasn't up then, so why would I even copy it?

                      It might surprise you, but when something like this happens, I don't think of immediately grabbing some proof against you on phoronix, cause to me you don't matter. It didn't occur to me at all to do it, is that so hard to understand? I just wanted to get on my way with whatever I needed the VM for. I don't think of you 24/7 like you do with this Weasel guy you keep mentioning all the time, know him?

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