Originally posted by Zan Lynx
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X.Org Server Development Hits A Nearly Two Decade Low
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Originally posted by Zan Lynx View Post
I've been using Wayland on all of my physical Linux systems since about 2016. It's been solid.
As far as I can tell everyone who doesn't use Wayland is using Nvidia or has some strange edge case I would have never imagined needing.
In my most recent try it didn't even start anymore. The DM is running (in wayland mode) but once I try to login I see the cursor and boom, back to login screen. With X everything is still running smoothly.
I see the architectural problems in X and would like something "better". But I do not see wayland being there (or anywhere close) yet. Plus, I also don't think the design choices for wayland are good ones. IMHO they should have taken a plugin based approach and defined proper APIs to deal with them, so GTK and QT can hook into it and the DEs can do their stuff. (e.g. plugin a "service" that deals with window decorations so the applications DO NOT have to deal with that shit themselves unless they really want to, in which case they simply could set a flag like "undecorated" and render it however they like.)
Whatever ... We'll see where it goes.
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I don't understand claims about running Wayland for several years with no issues. Might be OK if all you do is run some terminals, but beyond that? It's just *barely* becoming usable at the moment. I'm currently running Wayland w/ gnome-shell and with the newest release, it's the first time where I would say it might be OK for some general use. Not great, just OK. However, there are still odd visual glitches and issues (mostly with X applications), reproducible crashes in various situations, missing features (can't configure full/limited color range) and performance problems. Just a year ago, it was an unusable clusterfuck, so that's great progress.
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Originally posted by brent View PostI don't understand claims about running Wayland for several years with no issues. Might be OK if all you do is run some terminals, but beyond that? It's just *barely* becoming usable at the moment. I'm currently running Wayland w/ gnome-shell and with the newest release, it's the first time where I would say it might be OK for some general use. Not great, just OK. However, there are still odd visual glitches and issues (mostly with X applications), reproducible crashes in various situations, missing features (can't configure full/limited color range) and performance problems. Just a year ago, it was an unusable clusterfuck, so that's great progress.
My laptops for the last five years have been Dells with 4K displays. I use external monitors quite a lot. They are mostly 4K as well, but I have indeed used 1080p projectors and such.
I honestly never noticed any serious problems. I had to tweak Firefox DPI settings a couple of times and at one point Chrome had to be launched with a command-line option to adjust its DPI, but that affected X also so it was never a Wayland problem.
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Originally posted by brent View PostHowever, there are still odd visual glitches and issues (mostly with X applications), reproducible crashes in various situations, missing features (can't configure full/limited color range) and performance problems. Just a year ago, it was an unusable clusterfuck, so that's great progress.
If MacOS was able to get rid the old quartz and X11, why not GNOME and KDE?
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Originally posted by kpedersen View Post
This is quite interesting. Do you have any links to your projects or documentation you have been following?
Genuinely asking because my experience is that Wayland is all far to young and primitive at this stage. Everything is ad-hoc as hell!
So far most people "pro Wayland" have either never developed in the underlying tech (such as libX11/xcb equivalents) or just dabble with Gtk / Gnome and very high level interfaces. You might be fairly rare in that regard!
I have also used parts of the xdg-shell protocol [3], which is necessary for desktop applications.
I haven't looked at window decorations yet (because I don't need them in sway) or other more advanced features such as screensavers.
As a C++ programmer, I'm using Waylands inofficial C++ bindings [4], which makes things a lot nicer. It also comes with some very simple examples.
Unfortunately, there is no nice Wayland tutorial as there is for xcb [5]. I hope this will change in the future. It would certainly draw more developers towards Wayland.
[1] https://github.com/wayland-project/w...master/clients
[2] https://github.com/wayland-project/w...ol/wayland.xml
[3] https://github.com/wayland-project/w.../xdg-shell.xml
[4] https://github.com/NilsBrause/waylandpp
[5] https://xcb.freedesktop.org/tutorial/
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Originally posted by frank007 View PostBad news. Wayland is for "gamers", Xorg for serious Linux users. Does this mean we should aspect "bugs" in Xorg code to force people to adopt the unwanted Wayland?
At any rate, Xorg could use quite a few improvements. Honestly, they should stop treating it like a dead platform and actually focus on evolving things. Many of the improvements in Wayland could be implemented evolutionary style in Xorg.
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Originally posted by Zan Lynx View Post
What can I say? I run Fedora with Gnome user sessions. I do terminal windows, various games, Android Studio, LibreOffice, Firefox, Chrome, Thunderbird. Rhythmbox for music and podcasts, and Totem for playing video files.
My laptops for the last five years have been Dells with 4K displays. I use external monitors quite a lot. They are mostly 4K as well, but I have indeed used 1080p projectors and such.
I honestly never noticed any serious problems. I had to tweak Firefox DPI settings a couple of times and at one point Chrome had to be launched with a command-line option to adjust its DPI, but that affected X also so it was never a Wayland problem.
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