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X.Org Server Development Hits A Nearly Two Decade Low

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Britoid View Post

    The former, GNOME supports the org.freedesktop.ScreenSaver API which works on both X and Wayland and is easier to bind to a permission system. .
    Remind me again, why don't mpv devs support org.freedesktop.ScreenSaver? I remember reading it was complicated, but I lost the point about it

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    • #32
      Originally posted by ciupenhauer View Post
      Remind me again, why don't mpv devs support org.freedesktop.ScreenSaver? I remember reading it was complicated, but I lost the point about it
      It requires dbus, which by itself is a no-go for mpv devs, and it's a double no-go to be required to bring dbus into mpv just so that a *single* DE won't blank the screen while you're watching a video, when all other environments respond to Xss (the X screensaver extension) or the Wayland idle-inhibit protocol.
      Last edited by Gusar; 01-04-2020, 02:31 PM.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Zan Lynx View Post
        As far as I can tell everyone who doesn't use Wayland is using Nvidia or has some strange edge case I would have never imagined needing.
        People use window managers other than Gnome and Sway. As far as DEs go, possibly the majority use Xfce these days. So many fewer people use Wayland than you probably think.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Zan Lynx View Post

          I've been using Wayland on all of my physical Linux systems since about 2016. It's been solid.

          As far as I can tell everyone who doesn't use Wayland is using Nvidia or has some strange edge case I would have never imagined needing.
          Notebook with Intel graphics, ArchLinux as distribution. Tried wayland multiple times and always end up switching back due to bugs. Since my notebook display has a different DPI than the attached monitors, the mouse cursor is either far too small or far too large. Some applications outright crash. Some applications render with black borders or other stuff like that. The gnome desktop itself and all the gnome tools work fine. But I cannot work with that alone. I do more than just browsing the web and clicking on my desktop.

          In my most recent try it didn't even start anymore. The DM is running (in wayland mode) but once I try to login I see the cursor and boom, back to login screen. With X everything is still running smoothly.

          I see the architectural problems in X and would like something "better". But I do not see wayland being there (or anywhere close) yet. Plus, I also don't think the design choices for wayland are good ones. IMHO they should have taken a plugin based approach and defined proper APIs to deal with them, so GTK and QT can hook into it and the DEs can do their stuff. (e.g. plugin a "service" that deals with window decorations so the applications DO NOT have to deal with that shit themselves unless they really want to, in which case they simply could set a flag like "undecorated" and render it however they like.)

          Whatever ... We'll see where it goes.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by finalzone View Post

            Fedora already uses Wayland protocol by default since its 25th release and recently Red Hat Enterprise 8 series and its derivative.
            Debian Buster also uses it by default

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Bigon View Post

              Debian Buster also uses it by default
              Not if you install via the CD that comes with Xfce.

              Basically it only comes with Gnome. If you install Gnome; you get Wayland. If you install anything else; you don't.

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              • #37
                I don't understand claims about running Wayland for several years with no issues. Might be OK if all you do is run some terminals, but beyond that? It's just *barely* becoming usable at the moment. I'm currently running Wayland w/ gnome-shell and with the newest release, it's the first time where I would say it might be OK for some general use. Not great, just OK. However, there are still odd visual glitches and issues (mostly with X applications), reproducible crashes in various situations, missing features (can't configure full/limited color range) and performance problems. Just a year ago, it was an unusable clusterfuck, so that's great progress.

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                • #38
                  Gusar Don’t like fragmentation? Then stop NIHing wayland desktop compositors. It’s that simple.

                  Just because it’s fun to start yet another compositor project doesn’t make it smart or something that Mutter should deal with.

                  There’s no cross compositor community. Because there’s no benefits or any needs.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by brent View Post
                    I don't understand claims about running Wayland for several years with no issues. Might be OK if all you do is run some terminals, but beyond that? It's just *barely* becoming usable at the moment. I'm currently running Wayland w/ gnome-shell and with the newest release, it's the first time where I would say it might be OK for some general use. Not great, just OK. However, there are still odd visual glitches and issues (mostly with X applications), reproducible crashes in various situations, missing features (can't configure full/limited color range) and performance problems. Just a year ago, it was an unusable clusterfuck, so that's great progress.
                    What can I say? I run Fedora with Gnome user sessions. I do terminal windows, various games, Android Studio, LibreOffice, Firefox, Chrome, Thunderbird. Rhythmbox for music and podcasts, and Totem for playing video files.

                    My laptops for the last five years have been Dells with 4K displays. I use external monitors quite a lot. They are mostly 4K as well, but I have indeed used 1080p projectors and such.

                    I honestly never noticed any serious problems. I had to tweak Firefox DPI settings a couple of times and at one point Chrome had to be launched with a command-line option to adjust its DPI, but that affected X also so it was never a Wayland problem.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by brent View Post
                      However, there are still odd visual glitches and issues (mostly with X applications), reproducible crashes in various situations, missing features (can't configure full/limited color range) and performance problems. Just a year ago, it was an unusable clusterfuck, so that's great progress.
                      Wayland protocol is deliberately made minimal letting other functions to the toolkits. Some missing features need permission from a trusted applications. Applications themselves especially newer version needs to get rid of the X legacies.
                      If MacOS was able to get rid the old quartz and X11, why not GNOME and KDE?

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