KDE Developers Continue To Be Frustrated With Canonical

[n3wu53r]

this is your typical "i am right on the line what is still allowed" trash-arguments.

what if:
you get a award for worst code in 2013. Mark would do the same sarcastic posting.
the award would be fact, too.

but its not about the "fact" of that award. its about your behaviour. that is bad! while doing a big drama announcment stating:

you do this sarcastic posting intending an ad hominem attack.

So the KDE CoC is not worth anything more than you say the Ubuntu CoC is. Or is this _again_ a double standard thing? If its against Canonical, its ok?

It was a snarky remark. Not a personal attack.
Insulting someone's English when it is not their first language, or equating them to extremist political groups is a personal attack.

[RahulSundaram]

Egos and attitudes, simple as that.

Yum existed long before Zypper. I don't think SUSE developed it based on egos and attitudes. They made a technical choice to start a competing project. Also, DNF is just a experimental fork of Yum to adopt libsolv. When it is tested enough, it will become the new yum and cease to exist as a separate project. A common dependency resolver library used by both Fedora and openSUSE is a good thing to have. You should be cheering it instead.

[dee.]

that's a good question. I could show you identical comments from k1l on reddit in the r/linux and the r/ubuntu subreddit, here on Phoronix and on the German ubuntuusers forum. I kind of feel harassed by k1l.

To be clear, by "persecution complex" I meant that Canonical/Ubuntu fans are constantly in this mindset, they have this idea, that everyone is against them, that they're constantly being persecuted... it's like Canonical vs. the world. Probably part of the reason for this is Mark's comments, the way he actually seems to encourage this kind of behaviour: "we just want to make Linux easy, everyone is jealous of us so everyone attacks Canonical for no good reason, everyone else is just elitists who want Linux to be only for geeks..."

So when the leader of Canonical himself acts this way, it's no wonder his followers then parrot these things on the forums. Mark is the leader of Canonical, many Ubuntu fans look up to him, and he sets the tone of the narrative in the Canonical camp. I'm very disappointed with Mark's recent behaviour, he seemed to be much more reasonable a couple of years ago, then starting in last years he's just seemingly started going batshit insane for some reason... too much stress, not enough profits? Who knows...

[mgraesslin]

To be clear, by "persecution complex" I meant that Canonical/Ubuntu fans are constantly in this mindset, they have this idea, that everyone is against them, that they're constantly being persecuted... it's like Canonical vs. the world.

oh that :-) I call this the "RedHat Conspiracy".

[k1l_]

that's a good question. I could show you identical comments from k1l on reddit in the r/linux and the r/ubuntu subreddit, here on Phoronix and on the German ubuntuusers forum. I kind of feel harassed by k1l.

what about i feel insulted when you discredit and badmouth the ubuntu-community and make fun of ubuntu-fanboys?

beeing very picky what others say, thinking about sending adhortatory letter and always interpreting the worst into other words. while your actions are quite the same.

and now again: you make a big drama, forcing more exclusion of ubuntu from the linux-"community" because of lies! yes lies.
how does:

I used this week to reflect what happened 14 days ago and also the last half year in general and what I can do about it to not be affected like that.

fit into your congrats-posting?

that intention is clearly to spill more oil into the fire. so you lie when you say: " what I can do about it to not be affected like that"

[GreatEmerald]

I think you are just proving the point - that different people, of different native languages and nationalities, will interpret things differently.

More like people with different attention spans. And yes, of course people interpret differently, but it doesn't mean they interpret correctly. The author is the only person who knows the correct interpretation.

It's more complicated than that, because it depends on what the context is. "I have never tried skydiving" indicates that I may be interested in trying skydiving. "I have never murdered a child" certainly does not imply that I might be thinking about changing this status.

Actually, you can say "I have never tried skydiving" and be afraid of heights, thus being not interested in it whatsoever. The sentences don't actually imply anything other than that the person had not done the action before the point when they were talking.

Having said that i do not understand the FUD and melodrama against Canonical , even more when the so called community is in reality a community of companies .

The only FUD I'm seeing is the FUD from people claiming that others are spreading FUD. Merely saying that does not make it true.

that's a good question. I could show you identical comments from k1l on reddit in the r/linux and the r/ubuntu subreddit, here on Phoronix and on the German ubuntuusers forum. I kind of feel harassed by k1l.

How about e8hffff? The two of them seem to be the most vocal Ubuntu defenders and are posting on many websites. At least on Phoronix you can add people to ignore lists (which has an added benefit of making it faster to read through topics).

[mgraesslin]

what about i feel insulted when you discredit and badmouth the ubuntu-community and make fun of ubuntu-fanboys?

May I remind you that I offered to you that we meet in person at the German Ubuntu Users Conference in Heidelberg a few weeks ago to discuss all of that. Unfortunately you couldn't make it. I just put up the offer again: if you come to the Rhein-Neckar area, drop me a line and we drink a coffee together and discuss it.

I don't think that it's your task to come after core devs and defend Canonical. Especially in the matter of Mir where we first conflicted, you hardly have a chance to stand up against me on an argumental level. It's my job for years to work with the display server stack, it would be very bad on my side if you were able to even make one point. Please just think that I might be right in these areas out of experience.

that intention is clearly to spill more oil into the fire. so you lie when you say: " what I can do about it to not be affected like that"

No my intention was not to spill more oil into the fire. It's a completely different topic and such I cannot spill more oil into the fire. If you think in a "Canonical vs rest" way then yes. But that's not the way as I think. As I have stated several times I do not hate Canonical, but I feel free to criticize certain decisions. For example I criticized Ubuntu for the dash search from day one (as explained on ubuntuusers already: data protection is a very important issue to me and has been long before Snowden). So my comment of course went together with my already existing critic on that feature and has nothing to do with my problems around the Mir situation.

[jayrulez]

Neither faction can say that they are innocent in all this mud slinging. However, Martin is behaving like the child in the playground that takes part in a fight but when he gets a busted lip he runs to his mommy crying and blaming the other children for him being hurt.

Note: I am not defending anyone. I'm just pointing out that Martin is not innocent of mud slinging like he tries to make it look. Whether this is because of cultural differences or language barriers is irrelevant.

[marciocr]

Nonsense. You are conflating governance neutrality with forcing maintainers into accepting certain technology pieces. Maintainers get to make technical choices and reject options all the time. If you develop Mir, it is your job to convince and persuade the maintainers or otherwise fork if they want to. Criticising those maintainers because you have no technical arguments is a poor path to take.

No. No. And No.

The issue it is not the reject of the mir. The issue it's the war that come after the reject.
The problem was the unnecessary debate. Various projects rejected the mir, but without going into technical issues or attacks. Even when deserved, because of the FUD against Wayland.

If I remember well, the Mint devs just said "it is too soon", Xubuntu devs tested and don't approved the actual state of Mir. And nobody forced or called them or accused of anything. The problem it is that some KDE devs after the reject of mir, started to do political opposition to Canonical.

Proof?

https://plus.google.com/107555540696571114069/posts/HSL2C21DJt7

Just after Canonical announced the plans of the Unity8, Aaron Seigo wrote this text.
In the middle of the text he said:

Making unfounded claims in this manner is, imho, ethically weak. But what is really disappointing here is that the Free software community is being told a fairy tale in hopes that they will believe it and as a result support Canonical .. under what amounts to false pretenses.

He just called Canonical a company that is misleading and liar. In a very polite and political way.

This is the problem.

And don't calling MS or Canonical saints. They are not. The wayland FUD was bad, very bad. But the other side either are saint.

[mgraesslin]

Note: I am not defending anyone. I'm just pointing out that Martin is not innocent of mud slinging like he tries to make it look. Whether this is because of cultural differences or language barriers is irrelevant.

Note: if Canonical would not have lobbied us to implement Mir support I would not have written anything except my very first post on that topic where I stated that it's not of any interest to us. Anyway I would not agree on that I was slinging mud, at least not on the same level. I never spread lies about Mir (c.f. Wayland) and I did not personally attack/insult anybody from Canonical. Most of my blog posts or comments were in reply to something else like Mark stating that "KWin will work just fine on Mir". And I admit that I was very angry when I wrote the blog post in reply to that statement. The tea-party comment was nothing in comparison to that.