KDE Developers Continue To Be Frustrated With Canonical

[mrugiero]

Yeah, that's the point - Intel does not want to be nonexistent on mobile.

Are you telling me Intel wants Wayland to be successful on mobile? Wasn't that the reason Canonical didn't want to use Wayland, that it couldn't be successful both in mobile and in desktop?

this dev cant understand something, canonical dont cares about this opinion, or kde, they drop kubuntu support long time ago

Tell that to Mark, he is the one stating KWin will run on Mir.

What all this means? It means that all the nonsensical FUD surrounding this "controversy" is driven by the interests of these companies. This also means that these KDE developers are whining about the wrong thing, a dead horse , the most ridiculous whining . Furthermore, all this rationalization on technical merits and supposed "anti-comunity" is nothing else than just BS.

This means that users and developers will have to decide what is better for them. Going for the business of red hat and intel or the most desktop oriented approach of Canonical . There is also a conflict of interests in the tablet and smartphone arena. So i suggest to the users to pick what is better for themselves , not what is better for this so called "community" of companies.

My personal concerns are not driven by any company, so no, not all of the "nonsensical FUD surrounding this "controversy" is driven by the interest of these companies. There is a big part, but that's not all.
On KDE developers, it has more to do with MS compromising them to give support to Mir. Otherwise, they would not care at all.
The rationalization on technical merits is not BS. They expect technical merits to put themselves to work on Mir support, and that's right. Why would they work on it, otherwise? They have no need to follow MS' every whim, do they? On anti-community, well, that might be BS. They are still a single company who could just kick out anyone else, against a group that has to agree on things, AND an asymmetrical license that gives certain rights only to one company, against all companies and individuals having the same rights.
Also, I don't think Canonical's approach is more desktop oriented than Red Hat's. For a start, Canonical stated their main reason is that, for some unknown reason, Mir would enable them to get convergence between mobile and desktop, and their main focus right now seems to be succeeding in mobile. Red Hat, on the other hand, doesn't seem to have interest on mobile, and they do provide desktops, even though it is not consumer but corporate.

[mrugiero]

And this can explain the "Tea party" issue.
For a American "Tea party" it is just a conservative people. But for a European, because of "extreme right" image that the media sold, "tea party" is a extreme right people. And for a German, can be sound like neo Nazi.

AFAIR, MS is not American.

[mgraesslin]

"KDE has always had some of the worst software in the free software world. I can see this in the bug tracker. The quality of KDE software is really bad." : that would still be interpreted as an attack. What you are saying is that you get more bug reports from Kubuntu users than for other distributions, which, in itself, would be a completely valid statement. But the way it is stated is antagonistic. You can state that fact without the emotional language ("worst", "really bad")

sorry no, that's the point what I see in the bad reports. There is not a majority of bug reports from Kubuntu users. Overall it's not the largest distribution in number of reported bugs. But when going down to issues on the Mesa stack it becomes the vast majority. I don't want to search right now, but I put some graphs on Google+ some time ago.

[jayrulez]

...

Samsung is a Korean company...

[Alex Sarmiento]

On KDE developers, it has more to do with MS compromising them to give support to Mir.

And there it is ladies and gentleman, the FUD nonsense.

[RahulSundaram]

Linus and the other maintainers who review the submitted patches have to rule with an iron fist to maintain some neutrality against the self interests of some companies . It does not matters how many times you repeat the state of the obvious about the contribution made by companies, that's not the point since that's redundant . So i am very skeptical the same thing is happening with Wayland and , of course, with MIR. And i am certain that there is no neutral governance in MIR. Wayland, KDE/KWIN or Gnome .

What all this means? It means that all the nonsensical FUD surrounding this "controversy" is driven by the interests of these companies. This also means that these KDE developers are whining about the wrong thing, a dead horse , the most ridiculous whining . Furthermore, all this rationalization on technical merits and supposed "anti-comunity" is nothing else than just BS.

This means that users and developers will have to decide what is better for them. Going for the business of red hat and intel or the most desktop oriented approach of Canonical . There is also a conflict of interests in the tablet and smartphone arena. So i suggest to the users to pick what is better for themselves , not what is better for this so called "community" of companies.

There is clear and obvious neutral governance in Wayland (Xorg foundation, KDE (KDE E.v) and GNOME (GNOME foundation) as I have already noted explicitly before and Linux kernel maintainers don't rule with any kind of iron fist for neutrality. Instead they take technical AND commercial interests into account. C.f Recent Android upstreaming efforts or Ext4 changes that are only really applicable to Google or storage layer changes that are beneficial only to Oracle. None of this should be a surprise or news to anyone.

Lets get to the key issue though: You want to dismiss all dissenting opinions and pretend that it is just a commercial debate when it is exceeding obvious to anyone that these are many developers who speak for themselves and aren't acting on the behalf of their companies. It is a mix of technical debates and personality conflicts.

[marciocr]

AFAIR, MS is not American.

He is a South African living in England.

But I think that for a English a "extreme right" it is more like a Margaret Thatcher supporter than to a neo Nazi.

[marciocr]

There is clear and obvious neutral governance in Wayland (Xorg foundation, KDE (KDE E.v) and GNOME (GNOME foundation)

No. It is not.
If it was clear. This debate would not exist.

The Mir X Wayland, If KWin will or not adopt Mir and others issues only became a debate because of lack of neutrality.

[mgraesslin]

If KWin will or not adopt Mir and others issues only became a debate because of lack of neutrality.

huh? Who should have had influence on that? Just to make it quite clear: no company had asked us to decide against Mir. My decision was my own opinion based on the community governence rules we set up for ourself and from which the "no distro specific patch" derived. That Canonical wants us to implement Mir support is nice, but also irrelevant as we don't have the manpower for it...

[mgraesslin]

But I think that for a English a "extreme right" it is more like a Margaret Thatcher supporter than to a neo Nazi.

To give some background to it from a German position. In Germany parties fear the term "right" like the devil the holy water. Right is in German incorrectly applied to extremists and not to economy. So a "right" party calls itself "middle" here. Being recognized as a right winged party is certainly not good. But I don't think anybody considers the tea party as Nazis here. My description would be "those nutters, who brought the US to the border of bankruptcy, because they don't want public health care". Especially the public health care is something most people in Germany won't understand given that it got introduced in Germany by Otto von Bismarck in the 19th century. Also what we get from tea party are the strange beliefs like rape cannot lead to pregnancy or intelligent design. So it was a low blow as they are considered nutters.