Kubuntu, KDE Has Little Hope For Ubuntu's Mir

[TheBlackCat]

Something tells me that Martin will get over his butthurt and just support whatever Canonical throws at him, or Red Hat for that matter. We will have both wayland and mir and it's gonna be nice to see all these devs complaining.

You didn't read his post at all, did you? He went into some detail regarding the technical reasons why this isn't possible and most likely never will be possible no matter how popular Mir becomes.

They want to become a powerhouse. Right now they aren't the same size as Red Hat no one was saying that.

Wanting something and actually being able to achieve it are not the same thing.

[pandev92]

Something tells me that Martin will get over his butthurt and just support whatever Canonical throws at him, or Red Hat for that matter. We will have both wayland and mir and it's gonna be nice to see all these devs complaining.



http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/11/p...opular-desktop

http://anonimoconiglio.tumblr.com/po...tu-lying-to-us

[alexThunder]

You just said it. They care about VALVE, not Ubuntu.

Yes, that's what I said. But I also said :

[...]you probably know, which distro they [Valve] focus on.

I was referring to a certain distro, if that can help you further.

[Awesomeness]

ubuntu doesn't use a 'handful of gnome applications' - they use most of the gnome stack, just modified and removing/replacing bits that give them better integration in Unity. and NO using Nautilus on the desktop doesn't make it Gnome-Shell (that is just stupid, no offense). For example, i have several different desktop shells that i _could_ switch between without logging out - while using the gnome stack; Cinnamon, GS and Compiz - they aren't complete DEs - they just run on top of them. where as Gnome, KDE, etc are full DEs,

Be specific: Which parts of the ?GNOME stack? does Unity use to make it a shell for GNOME? And no, a mere blog post by Mark Shuttleworth or Jono Bacon who simply wrote that Unity is a shell for GNOME does not count as technical argument.

Ubuntu's default browser is Firefox, not GNOME Web. The mailer is Thunderbird, not Evolution. The office suite is LibreOffice, not whatever GNOME offers.
As I already wrote: Key parts of the technology foundation were replaced by non-GNOME versions. To repeat myself: LightDM instead of GDM, accounts-sso instead of GOA, Maliit instead of GNOME Keyboard, Nux instead of Clutter, Compiz instead of Mutter.

Ubuntu ships many GNOME dependencies by default because it ships some GNOME applications by default: Nautilus, Shotwell, and a few others.
But the key point is: Unity itself is not written using GNOME technologies, therefore it's not a shell that has anything to do with GNOME. (Cinnamon in comparison is at least written using GNOME's libmutter.

[Akka]

Unity is gnome in the same way the Harmattan phones also was partial gnome. Without the gnome components you have not a complete desktop.
You can probably build gnome shell without that many gnome dependencies if you spend some time on it.

[Mike Frett]

The problem

We had several offspring of Ubuntu that went from Fat to Skinny...something for every computer ya know. But then XFCE became a Pig and LXDE development all but stopped. I personally use Xubuntu, but I have some older computers that can't really run any ANY Linux distro because all the DEs are too Fat. I thought the whole point of Linux was to have something for everyone, seems as if it's not that way anymore.

I wouldn't mind a dedicated flavor of Ubuntu with JWM. At least it would fill the 'light' category and JWM works very well on my older systems, compared to LXDE and XFCE. Absolute Linux does a good job for older systems, but it's not very easy to use for new people and has a terrible way of getting Software. If Absolute Linux had a nice package manager with easy install/uninstall and auto menu entries, it would be default on my older systems.

Right now we are in an uncertain transitional period where nobody knows what's going to happen. I think in the end, it'll all be worked out to our satisfaction.

[Ericg]

Be specific: Which parts of the ?GNOME stack? does Unity use to make it a shell for GNOME? And no, a mere blog post by Mark Shuttleworth or Jono Bacon who simply wrote that Unity is a shell for GNOME does not count as technical argument.

Ubuntu's default browser is Firefox, not GNOME Web. The mailer is Thunderbird, not Evolution. The office suite is LibreOffice, not whatever GNOME offers.
As I already wrote: Key parts of the technology foundation were replaced by non-GNOME versions. To repeat myself: LightDM instead of GDM, accounts-sso instead of GOA, Maliit instead of GNOME Keyboard, Nux instead of Clutter, Compiz instead of Mutter.

Ubuntu ships many GNOME dependencies by default because it ships some GNOME applications by default: Nautilus, Shotwell, and a few others.
But the key point is: Unity itself is not written using GNOME technologies, therefore it's not a shell that has anything to do with GNOME. (Cinnamon in comparison is at least written using GNOME's libmutter.

You can't even say that Unity is written in GTK anymore because Unity Next is being done in Qt5, QtQuick and QML

[Serafean]

If linux will ever get a larger marketshare it won't be because there will be 20 distros who each have 4% and you know it. There will be one major distro that will go on taking over the world.

And we will be no better off than now with the current dominating OS. Is that what you want?

Right now the distro with the best chances is Ubuntu. Which is why I am arguing that Ubuntu is the best distro for the masses. But of course you arch users who fucking hate it for people having it easy must come in and troll and try to stop Canonical dead in its tracks.

I do use Gentoo, but that doesn't mean that I look down on non-technical users. I accept the fact that they need a point & click interface. On the other hand, I refuse to have (very) advanced features integrated in the GUI (X forwarding over SSH: you know about it, learn to use it.). Why I don't like Canonical has already been said many times : they take, and profit without giving back. That much I am willing to overlook, but creating a rift in the software stack just because they can't be bothered to collaborate, that's too much.

And it's not just you. You are just one of the many Canonical haters and some of them are devs who actively try to hurt Canonical by the way they behave and try to remove support for them as much as they can. And of course they use the argument that Canonical is evil. And they are just responding to evilness. No way in hell would they admit that they are just jealous of Canonical's success.

All of the instances I've seen, it wasn't about removing ubuntu support, but not accepting distro-specific hacks into upstream code. Point me to one instance where ubuntu support was removed just because it was ubuntu, and then we'll talk. Until then, you're a troll...

Anyway, nice to see the kwin maintainer is keeping a cool head about this

[Awesomeness]

Unity is gnome in the same way the Harmattan phones also was partial gnome. Without the gnome components you have not a complete desktop.

One could just as well use KDE components to substitute features.

You can probably build gnome shell without that many gnome dependencies if you spend some time on it.

No. Clutter is a GNOME toolkit and GS uses Clutter to its core.

You can't even say that Unity is written in GTK anymore because Unity Next is being done in Qt5, QtQuick and QML

Unity was never written in GTK. It uses Nux, a toolkit entirely independent from GNOME.

[duby229]

What are you not getting? Canonical doesnt collaborate. Thet use OSS code, but don't contribute.