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Red Hat Developing New xwayland-run & wlheadless-run Utilities

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  • spicfoo
    replied
    Originally posted by avis View Post
    Now 13 messages without a shred of evidence? All talk and no walk?
    True, you never provided any evidence that anyone else other than you was talking about certification or hardware enablement but don't have be too harsh on yourself
    Originally posted by avis View Post
    I told you I'm not interested in your verbiage
    You say that and I welcomed you to use the block button if you meant it but here you are being more needy. Are you depressed or something?

    Leave a comment:


  • avis
    replied
    Now 13 messages without a shred of evidence? All talk and no walk? Here, take a prize. I told you I'm not interested in your verbiage and you just continued with it. LOL.

    Leave a comment:


  • spicfoo
    replied
    Originally posted by avis View Post

    So, you basically downright refuse to prove RH's statement(s)
    That's nonsense. You claimed Red Hat was saying hardware enablement is the issue. I asked you to show me the evidence. You didn't provide any. The ball is in your court.

    Originally posted by avis View Post
    Not only that, you added Ubuntu, Suse and Oracle to the list
    You pretended that Red Hat said it maintenance was about certification first and then falsely claimed that only Red Hat is doing it. Then you asked for links to show others are doing it even though you could have easily searched for it, you got exactly what you asked for and proceeded to ignore all that repeat your false claim then anyway.

    Originally posted by avis View Post
    please ignore my drivel from now on
    If you don't want to get called out, don't post drivel in the first place and don't pretend you just want evidence when you continuously make false claims, shift the goal posts and call everyone liars. If you don't want to see me calling you out, you are welcome to use the block feature.

    Leave a comment:


  • avis
    replied
    Originally posted by spicfoo View Post

    Show me an exact quote where they said hardware enablement is the only issue. As I already told you, if you want to see commits, go use git clone and don't expect more spoon fed links you can ignore. You are not entitled to free labor from other people.
    So, you basically downright refuse to prove RH's statement(s) using their own open git repo. Thank you for confirming you never had any arguments.

    And no, the onus of proving is on you, not me. You countered my words and claimed "RH does a ton of work to maintain X.org". Not only that, you added Ubuntu, Suse and Oracle to the list again without a single shred of evidence other than their respectful web pages which contain nothing but claims.

    In the end after almost a dozen messages (!!) you've failed to provide a single git commit/solid proof X.org requires extensive/super expensive maintenance.

    Have a nice day and please ignore my drivel from now on and I will ignore yours and other Wayland proponents drivel as well: "Xorg is so outdated, requires so much resources/money, OMG, let's drop it right away and instead spend millions of dollars developing 20 different Wayland implementations". Oh, the fucking irony. You had one shared code base, now you have to implement and debug 20 different code bases. That's fucking ridiculous, and so "futuristic", "modern" and "right".

    Leave a comment:


  • spicfoo
    replied
    Originally posted by avis View Post
    I've asked to show specific commits spicfoo demonstrating HW enablement which RedHat claimed is the issue.
    Show me an exact quote where they said hardware enablement is the only issue. As I already told you, if you want to see commits, go use git clone and don't expect more spoon fed links you can ignore. You are not entitled to free labor from other people.

    Leave a comment:


  • avis
    replied
    I've asked to show specific commits spicfoo demonstrating HW enablement which RedHat claimed is the issue.

    You've dumped a ton of text and not shown a single such commit.

    I'm tired of vapid arguments. You've now posted at least six messages and not a single one of them contains a shred of evidence. You only refer to some posts and "someone said something". Sorry, that's not how argumentation works.

    Have a nice day and I'll see myself off.

    Leave a comment:


  • spicfoo
    replied
    Originally posted by avis View Post
    spicfoo

    redhat representatives have claimed their company has been the only one contributing to xorg recently. I trust their word more than any of the above three companies vapid certification claims
    .... Again, let's be blunt, I claimed xorg doesn't require extensive maintenance that you and other Wayland proponents use a scapegoat of its depreciation and I still stand by the claim. Neither redhat, nor you, have conclusively shown any xorg server commits.
    According to you now, all the other vendors are lying when they publicly provide certification information and Richard Hughes from the graphics team at Red Hat is lying when he says Xorg requires substantial resources to maintain including regular high severity security fixes



    Also according to you, Carolos, manager of that graphics team is also lying when he reaffirms this

    One thing I saw in comments about the removal of xorg server is that some might not see how much work is/was to maintain xorg server. I understand is hard to see from outside, but maintaining xorg server with the standards we have in RHEL is not a small beast. Let me share some:


    If you want to move the goal posts from certification and ignore all the security updates and focus now on git commits instead



    If you really cared, go ahead and look instead of expecting more spoon fed links or continue to claim that everyone including Red Hat is lying and be a Xorg truther. Your choice. Ultimately, if Xorg server is so easy to maintain and you cared about helping other Xorg server users, you would step up to do it instead of speaking both sides of your mouth.

    Leave a comment:


  • avis
    replied
    spicfoo

    Thank you for the links.

    Ubuntu: a number of desktop systems.
    Oracle: zero desktop systems.
    Suse: no information whatsoever.

    Meanwhile redhat representatives have claimed their company has been the only one contributing to xorg recently. I trust their word more than any of the above three companies vapid certification claims and we've already established that only Ubuntu certifies desktop system and it's far from clear how and to what extent it's being done - until you find xorg server commits coming from Ubuntu developers showing real fixes, their claims of certification are worth nothing.

    Again, let's be blunt, I claimed xorg doesn't require extensive maintenance that you and other Wayland proponents use a scapegoat of its depreciation and I still stand by the claim. Neither redhat, nor you, have conclusively shown any xorg server commits enabling it to run modern systems.

    Please do. I hate when people parrot hearsay. Too many issues in the real world are caused by people accepting certain things for granted and then acting as if those things are valid and real when they are just pure effing BS.

    Just today from two women both having master degrees I've heard that:
    • Relatively modern vaccines are largely unsafe/untested and invariably lead to dire consequences (or can even kill you)
    • You must drink at least 1.5 liters of pure water daily or your health will get worse.
    Of course, no proofs, research, nothing has been provided.

    And I've noticed that smaller communities absolutely love to perpetuate myths once told by a seemingly authoritative figure.

    Linus circa 10 years ago said Fuck you Nvidia and it's become a meme or in reality a bane of the Linux community. 99% of people parroting this don't even know the circumstances of how it happened. Nvidia started to support Linux earlier and much better than AMD or Intel did. Yes, Nvidia doesn't want to open source their drivers, it's their inalienable right for fuck's sake. They owe Linux fans nothing. Just because you're a Linux user doesn't automatically mean that every IHV must bent for you and give you open source drivers.

    And stop throwing "you're a liar" or "you're wrong". I have no qualms admitting that, one of rare such people here. I just love solid effing facts before I change my mind.

    Linux fans on the other hand love myths.
    Last edited by avis; 03 December 2023, 02:46 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • spicfoo
    replied
    Originally posted by avis View Post

    Which distro other than RHEL does xorg certification?

    Please give me the appropriate links to the official websites. Suse, Ubuntu, Oracle, Debian, Mandriva, Arch, what have you.
    There is no such that "Xorg certification". Every enterprise distribution does certification that makes sure all software they ship including but not limited to the kernel, Mesa, Xorg, Wayland etc is certified to work with a list of hardware they approve of. Since apparently you are unable to search for it, I will help you out. Here is a sample for you


    Ubuntu Certified Hardware has passed our extensive testing and review process, ensuring that Ubuntu runs optimally out of the box, ready for your organisation. Canonical provides continuous support throughout the lifecycle of the Ubuntu release to ensure quality, functionality, and maintenance for up to 10 years



    Are you willing to admit it when you are wrong yet?

    Leave a comment:


  • spicfoo
    replied
    Originally posted by avis View Post

    Yeah, I read what he told and I perfectly understood it.
    You either didn't understand it or you are knowingly making false claims. What he said was "Even if the design of graphics hardware never changed, the number of Xorg CVEs the graphics team handles is huge, and each is usually high severity and requires a massive amount of validation and testing"

    Richard Hughes was clearly talking about security fixes, not hardware certification. So who is going to do those security fixes for Xorg now according to you?

    Leave a comment:

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