Red Hat Developing New xwayland-run & wlheadless-run Utilities

[jacob]

By "some people still apparently don't understand is that wayland was not meant to replace x11 feature for feature", do you mean the people who get all up in arms when X11 users refuse to migrate to it?

Seriously, though, trying to deprecate someone's workflow or declare it illegitimate tends to be bad for getting converts.

No one says it's illegitimate, what the developers are saying is that they will no longer be putting in the effort and expense to support it, since it makes their own lives harder while holding back the rest of the community. No one will be prohibited from maintaining xorg, mind you, but they would need to put in the hard work themselves now. I'd say that's perfectly fair and legitimate.

[spicfoo]

Why a rootfull not rootless instance?
What are the security implications of a rootful instance?

None. You are confused about the meaning of root in this case. It doesn't mean running as root user. It is a reference to a root window ie) the top most window is a hierarchy.

[spicfoo]

Yep. I consider leaving the linux kernel a long time ago cor this reason. Linux is becoming insecure bloated and slow. Linux is the new windhose. python was always trash to me as well.

I would urge you act on your considerations asap. I would recommend leaving Phoronix as well. Too many Microsoft people in this forum, some of them even contribute to Linux kernel and post on the forum at the same time. It's not just Python as well. It's PHP too. It's even C++ and Rust. They are everywhere really.

[spicfoo]

maybe I'm just wrong

Indeed. Wouldn't be the first time. I hope you atleast learned a few basic facts from this conversation including that software with a large surface area tend to require maintenance. Might help you in your valiant quest to make Linux accessible for everyone. I look forward to your contributions

[Radtraveller]

Why a rootfull not rootless instance?
What are the security implications of a rootful instance?

[cj.wijtmans]

Yes, that makes sense given that they use Wayland in WSL. Since Microsoft is a contributor to so many other projects including Linux kernel and Python, you probably want to move away from all of that just to be safe from their middling influence.

Yep. I consider leaving the linux kernel a long time ago cor this reason. Linux is becoming insecure bloated and slow. Linux is the new windhose. python was always trash to me as well.

[avis]

You are person number 150 here who assumes I'm talking about my personal woes and needs. The truth is I can run X.org for many more years, I do not bloody care, I've done it before. I can hack and compile source code, build packages, no big deal.

The issue is I want Linux to be accessible and usable by as many people as possible. On the other hand Wayland proponents here, including you, are cheering the fact that soon Linux will again become a lot less usable than it is now in 2023.

This is ugly, embarrassing, despicable and shameful. Or maybe I'm just wrong and Linux is all about elitism. Have fun fiercely defending Wayland and talking crap about X.org. Weirdly you signed up a few days ago and made your profile as restricted as humanly possible. That is normally a sign of a troll or someone with an agenda, but maybe I'm just wrong, and you're a proud Linux user.

[spicfoo]

1) Again as long as KMS/libinput are there X.org is safe. The maintenance everyone is talking about (and does not understand at all what the whole ordeal is about and parrots how utterly important it is) is RH's maintenance to certify X.org for new HW. This is not needed or required. Other Linux distros have never done that (maybe Ubuntu/Suse/Oracle did but no one has confirmed that).

2) It matters for those who don't use Gnome/KDE. I'm an XFCE user, there's no Wayland for me. There's nothing even close to IceWM for Wayland. I've given Wayfire a ton of tries, filed a dozen of bug reports and stopped using it. It's too incomplete.

1) Everyone knows all enterprise distributions do certifications. That is just a basic fact. You can google that in a few secondd. When a vendor says they don't want to maintain a software(you seem to have assumed incorrectly that it is only referring to certifications and also incorrectly assumed that noone else is doing it), that's their sole decision.

2) If Xorg requires no maintenance as you claim, just keep using it with XFCE in a LTS distribution that still supports it. What a commercial vendor does for their customers isn't your concern for atleast a decade then and you have zero control on that anyway.

[avis]

I merely asked you a couple of questions which you have yet to answer. So I will ask you again 1) If there is no maintenance required for Xorg as you claimed why is noone else stepping up to do any work on Xorg server releases? 2) Why does it matter that it is abadonware?

Also FYI, enterprise distributions including SUSE and Canonical handle certifications. So your claim that no other Linux is doing it is completely false but besides the point. Just the answer the questions briefly if you can.

1) Again as long as KMS/libinput are there X.org is safe. The maintenance everyone is talking about (and does not understand at all what the whole ordeal is about and parrots how utterly important it is) is RH's maintenance to certify X.org for new HW. This is not needed or required. Other Linux distros have never done that (maybe Ubuntu/Suse/Oracle did but no one has confirmed that).

2) It matters for those who don't use Gnome/KDE. I'm an XFCE user, there's no Wayland for me. There's nothing even close to IceWM for Wayland. I've given Wayfire a ton of tries, filed a dozen of bug reports and stopped using it. It's too incomplete.

[spicfoo]

Maybe you could follow the rest of the discussion and stop publicly flaying me.

RedHat maintains X.org to provide official certification for HW. No other Linux does that.

I merely asked you a couple of questions which you have yet to answer. So I will ask you again 1) If there is no maintenance required for Xorg as you claimed why is noone else stepping up to do any work on Xorg server releases? 2) Why does it matter that it is abadonware?

Also FYI, enterprise distributions including SUSE and Canonical handle certifications. So your claim that no other Linux is doing it is completely false but besides the point. Just the answer the questions briefly if you can.