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Red Hat Developing New xwayland-run & wlheadless-run Utilities

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  • spicfoo
    replied
    Originally posted by cj.wijtmans View Post

    because nothing open source existed before webkit
    That's not all what anyone is saying. Before WebKit, we had one mainstream browser (Firefox) using an open source engine. Now all mainstream browsers are using an open source engine.

    Leave a comment:


  • cj.wijtmans
    replied
    Originally posted by spicfoo View Post

    The alternative is for web engines to be entirely proprietary and single vendor in control. Remember Microsoft and internet explorer
    because nothing open source existed before webkit

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  • anda_skoa
    replied
    Originally posted by fitzie View Post
    for example, I'd love for xscreensaver, a total useless (but fun and good) bit of software to be able to exist on wayland.

    look at this:

    Wayland does not support screen savers: it does not have any provision that allows screen savers to even exist in any meaningful way. If you value screen savers, that's kind of a problem. Why doesn't it? Well, I suppose the designers of Wayland have no joy in their cold, black hearts simply do not value screen savers. I suspect that some day someone will graft screen saver support onto ...
    On a quick glance it does look as if the article claims a limitation of Wayland, when it actually does the opposite.
    It is more or less trolling people who buy into the "Wayland is more limited than X11" trope.

    The article is quite clear that providing a working screen lock is a nightmare on X11.

    On Wayland the compositor is control of both input and output and can easily transition between its normal mode of operation to locked screen.
    The content of the lock screen can obviously be as dynamic as any other surface, e.g. classic screensaver rendering, notifications, media player controls, or just blank.

    The article then goes on to acknowledges that macOS does the very same thing.
    "Under macOS, how that works is, the system instantiates a configured subclass of a ScreenSaverView window sized for each monitor and tells each of them to start animating"

    I am sure you are not the only reader who fell for that flame bait.
    It is expertly written to sound like a complaint about Wayland.
    A lot art still practiced by those few who learned it during the usenet era

    Cheers,
    _

    Leave a comment:


  • spicfoo
    replied
    Originally posted by cj.wijtmans View Post
    you are saying that is if its a bad thing to be without webkit and blink and all that.
    The alternative is for web engines to be entirely proprietary and single vendor in control. Remember Microsoft and internet explorer

    Leave a comment:


  • cj.wijtmans
    replied
    Originally posted by spicfoo View Post
    hey if KDE didn't do its own thing with KHTML, we wouldn't have WebKit, Blink and all that.
    you are saying that is if its a bad thing to be without webkit and blink and all that.

    Leave a comment:


  • spicfoo
    replied
    Originally posted by ssokolow View Post

    It's a well known fact among the people who would be in a position to steer policy in projects like KDE that Mutter's architecture is horrendous.

    (Among other things, part of GNOME's refusal to implement the server-side decorations KDE prefers is that Mutter can't do it performantly without a major rewrite... a performance penalty they then try to claim all SSD-providing compositors suffer.)‚Äč
    Speaking of well known facts, we all know that Mutter was never going to be used by KDE regardless of any architectural or performance concerns anymore than EFL was going to use KWin. One of the KWin developers even forked KWin to be based on wlroots and was funded by Valve for two years. That developer was booted off KDE Planet while other developers repeatedly criticized him for doing this work. He lost funding and continues to maintain the fork even now but noone is going to adopt it. Reality is that desktop environments are their own fiercely independent ecosystems and they take pride in that. They will never allow other desktop environments to control key parts of their stack and hey if KDE didn't do its own thing with KHTML, we wouldn't have WebKit, Blink and all that. The hand wringing on multiple implementations of anything in the free software world is entirely bogus. If you don't have centralized top down control which you don't, you are always going to have people doing their own thing

    Leave a comment:


  • spicfoo
    replied
    Originally posted by avis View Post
    You continue to basically lie about "maintenance" even after I explained what exactly it entails and why it's not strictly required.
    Your false explanation was it all about certification and no other Linux is doing it. Every single enterprise linux distribution does certifications. No need to get emotional over getting this wrong. Just google it. You can readily confirm this within seconds.

    Originally posted by avis View Post
    I'm just not interested in your reasoning and arguments
    I appreciate your confirmation. You may continue to insist that Xorg is maintenance free and everyone else is lying. All the best

    Leave a comment:


  • ssokolow
    replied
    Originally posted by jacob View Post

    No one says it's illegitimate, what the developers are saying is that they will no longer be putting in the effort and expense to support it, since it makes their own lives harder while holding back the rest of the community. No one will be prohibited from maintaining xorg, mind you, but they would need to put in the hard work themselves now. I'd say that's perfectly fair and legitimate.
    For the "illegitimate" part, I was referring more to how we're starting to see applications like LibrePCB locking themselves to only running under Wayland via XWayland while the members of the Wayland protocols repo argue over whether it's legitimate for an application to want to be able to set their icon via means other than "This is my .desktop file name. Please look it up in the system .desktop cache and use the icon from there." (eg. So Appimages can have titlebar icons without needing something like appimaged to install them in the system launcher menu first. So applications can badge their icons with unread message counts. So applications can give a different icon for each sub-application without needing to install .desktop files for subapplications that may not be separately launchable, etc. etc. etc.)

    ...or another discussion about how much work they think it's reasonable to force porters of multi-window Windows and macOS applications to do to translate relative window positioning code in order to make said applications behave as nicely as they can get away with mandating on tiling or VR/AR window managers. (Granted, I personally think that UIs like XSane or multi-window GIMP suck, but...)
    Last edited by ssokolow; 01 December 2023, 06:22 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • avis
    replied
    Originally posted by spicfoo View Post

    Indeed. Wouldn't be the first time. I hope you atleast learned a few basic facts from this conversation including that software with a large surface area tend to require maintenance. Might help you in your valiant quest to make Linux accessible for everyone. I look forward to your contributions
    I'm done with you. You continue to basically lie about "maintenance" even after I explained what exactly it entails and why it's not strictly required.

    "My quest", also thank you for confirming that you're also a big fan of elitism and Linux being inaccessible for the average Joe.

    I'm just not interested in your reasoning and arguments and you've not had any in the first place. You only throw questions and sow the seeds of doubt non-stop.

    Leave a comment:


  • smitty3268
    replied
    Originally posted by avis View Post

    Which one of its many implementations?
    Mutter. Red Hat has always just focused on gnome, and the other desktops are community supported. Just like X can be, if people step up to provide it.

    Leave a comment:

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