KDE Plasma 5.25 Beta Released With Many Improvements, Wayland Support Maturing

[ResponseWriter]

Honestly, with 5.24 I'd recommend the Wayland session for most people on Intel graphics. The only problem I've had is a hang that seems to be specific to some RDNA2 cards otherwise it should be OK for many on AMD graphics as well. The one feature I'd like to see is the ability for Kwin to recover after a crash, which has already been demonstrated by David Edmundson (2:46).

Edit: Caveat: I run Wayland with this patch to stop Wayland apps crashing if there's a bit of IO.

[vegabook]

According to benchmarks, apparently I do. I wouldn't have chosen Arch or KDE for their default configuration either, yet here we are. I'm not saying they're all bad choices, just not the most optimal ones.
In any case, it's rather hypocritical of you to laugh, seeing as you're the one complaining about how Valve has it set up; I don't really care.

Maybe if you stopped deliberately ignoring certain points, what I said would make more sense to you. Wayland is lighter-weight, Xwayland is inherently heavier. I shouldn't have to spell this out for you.

Says the one who doesn't know how to enable Wayland in desktop mode...

you're truly living in a parallel universe if you honestly think that, without even owning the device, basing your arguments entirely on hearsay, contradicting yourself multiple times, you still think you know more than Valve Inc about their own device. Haha truly your hubris puts you in a class of one!

Seeks like brain is living in some kind of quantum uncertainty field where true=false at the same time and where the obvious is illusory. They should have hired you to replace Jen Psaki! You'd be perfect.

[schmidtbag]

haha so you know better than Valve Inc? Which happens to have chosen Wayland for their gaming device. If they don't use it for desktop, it's because of KDE stability.

According to benchmarks, apparently I do. I wouldn't have chosen Arch or KDE for their default configuration either, yet here we are. I'm not saying they're all bad choices, just not the most optimal ones.
In any case, it's rather hypocritical of you to laugh, seeing as you're the one complaining about how Valve has it set up; I don't really care.

Somewhere else you said something about Wayland being lighter weight, but oh now we mustn't use it on a gaming device because the performance lorry/civic whatever. You're spinning faster than Joe Biden's brain on merry-go-around.

Maybe if you stopped deliberately ignoring certain points, what I said would make more sense to you. Wayland is lighter-weight, Xwayland is inherently heavier. I shouldn't have to spell this out for you.

You've been caught with your pants down talking about a subject you know nothing about, and no amount of "you're dense" obfuscation can wash that out I'm afraid.

Says the one who doesn't know how to enable Wayland in desktop mode...

[vegabook]

Holy crap you are so dense. Calm down and read more carefully.
You have already made it clear that gaming mode uses Wayland. You don't need to repeat yourself, and it's hardly relevant to anything you and I discussing.
Where did I say anything about gaming in desktop mode?

You really need to either:
A. Stop using your device for what it wasn't meant to do
B. Understand that it's still an early complex product and it's not going to do everything sensibly or perfectly until it gets time to get polished
C. Take advantage of its open nature and figure out how to solve the problem yourself. It really shouldn't be that hard, so quit your whining.

@schmidtbag: "In any case, even in that best-case scenario, you'll find there are instances where Wayland was performing significantly worse. So long as that still happens on a gaming device, it isn't worth using."

haha so you know better than Valve Inc? Which happens to have chosen Wayland for their gaming device. If they don't use it for desktop, it's because of KDE stability.

Somewhere else you said something about Wayland being lighter weight, but oh now we mustn't use it on a gaming device because the performance lorry/civic whatever. You're spinning faster than Joe Biden's brain on merry-go-around.

You've been caught with your pants down talking about a subject you know nothing about, and no amount of "you're dense" obfuscation can wash that out I'm afraid.

[schmidtbag]

Again this is total and utter bull. For gaming, the Deck has a gaming mode. You can't do anything to how that mode works, that's how it boots, and it happens to use WAYLAND in that mode. Gees 🤦.

Nobody games on the deck in Desktop mode. That's what the gaming mode is FOR.

You need to calm down.
You have already made it clear that gaming mode uses Wayland. You don't need to repeat yourself, and it's hardly relevant to anything you and I discussing.
Where did I say anything about gaming in desktop mode?

You really need to stay away from subjects you patently know nothing about.

You really need to either:
A. Stop using your device for what it wasn't meant to do
B. Understand that it's still an early complex product and it's not going to do everything sensibly or perfectly until it gets time to get polished
C. Take advantage of its open nature and figure out how to solve the problem yourself. It really shouldn't be that hard, so quit your whining.

[vegabook]

That's a 16c/32t system with practically double the clock speeds. Not to mention, a much more powerful GPU with its own dedicated VRAM. To use those benchmarks and say there's no overhead is like driving an 18 wheeler and saying there's no impact to its performance when you load it with a fully-assembled desk. Try roof-mounting that desk on a Honda Civic and you're going to notice a difference in the way it drives.

In any case, even in that best-case scenario, you'll find there are instances where Wayland was performing significantly worse. So long as that still happens on a gaming device, it isn't worth using.

Again this is total and utter bull. For gaming, the Deck has a gaming mode. You can't do anything to how that mode works, that's how it boots, and it happens to use WAYLAND in that mode. Gees 🤦.

Nobody games on the deck in Desktop mode. That's what the gaming mode is FOR.

You really need to stay away from subjects you patently know nothing about.

[schmidtbag]

again, if you had a steam deck, you'd know that there is no login screen for the desktop session, and therefore no way of easily choosing it vs X. Now sure I could spend a week borking around to try to get this working, but I don't have the knowledge, nor the time, to do so, like I suspect, most people. I just go back to my initial point: it would be nice if KDE's wayland support was strong enough that it was the default on the steam deck so that my monitors work properly.

I currently don't use my login screen to select my desktop session. I do that through my display manager's config file. I doubt Valve wrote their own DM.
It should only take a day to reinstall vanilla Arch with Valve's kernel. Maybe 2 days if you're a Linux noob.

[vegabook]

What are the errors in my assumptions? I know what its specs are, and I know what it's expected to do. You are trying to deviate from that and use your personal preferences as if they apply to everyone. If that's not what you intended, then again: what's preventing you from just enabling Wayland yourself? That's the beauty of an open platform: you don't need Valve to set it up the way you want, because you can do it.

a) You keep avoiding my question: what prevents you from running Wayland in desktop mode?
b) Hence me saying "use Valve's repos". Install the vanilla Arch version of KDE and the Valve version of the kernel.
c) In what way does X11 not offer that?
d) And yet I agree with you about Wayland's usefulness in many desktop applications, yet you're so fixated on arguing.

again, if you had a steam deck, you'd know that there is no login screen for the desktop session, and therefore no way of easily choosing Wayland vs X, even if I installed it. Also, right now, as you probably also don't know, every time Steam updates the OS, which happens in the default game mode in which it boots, anything not in your home directory, ie anything you've done with sudo into root, is erased. Now sure I could spend a week borking around to try to get this working, but I don't have the knowledge, nor the time, to do so, like I suspect, most people, nor, like most people, do I feel like screwing around too much with a highly customised OS for a highly customised piece of hardware. I just go back to my initial point: it would be nice if KDE's wayland support was strong enough that it was the default on the steam deck so that my monitors work properly.

[aufkrawall]

To use those benchmarks and say there's no overhead is like driving an 18 wheeler and saying there's no impact to its performance when you load it with a fully-assembled desk.

There is no XWayland overhead on my slow Gemini Lake notebook, Counter-Strike 1.6 scores ~162fps on both Xorg modesetting DDX compositing suspended (xf86-video-intel fails miserably) and KWin XWayland while being throttled to 6W.

[Slartifartblast]

I'll wait a bit longer before jumping on the Wayland band waggon as it's still not quite there regardless of desktop environment, I'll leave early adoption to those willing to risk unexpected behaviour and possible meltdowns.

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