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KDE Plasma 5.25 Beta Released With Many Improvements, Wayland Support Maturing

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  • vegabook
    replied
    Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
    Things like DXVK spread out CPU resources across multiple threads, where even though the overall CPU usage goes up, the performance goes up with it. The same does not apply to XWayland. Also, those translation layers are a matter of necessity. The added overhead of XWayland is entirely avoidable.

    I don't understand your point about the Pi. Wayland, when used as intended, is less resource intensive. I doubt you're playing a lot of games on your Pi (other than maybe some emulators), so, it makes perfect sense to use Wayland. I have Wayland set up on an ARM-based laptop and it actually works better than X11. The Deck has a lot more grunt but it also has a lot more work to do. As long as XWayland is still necessary to play certain games, it's unnecessary overhead.

    If the next-gen Deck has 6c/12t or higher and Wayland gets a bit more polished, I think then it would be fine to use. Alluding to caligula's post, when headlines consistently stop mentioning Wayland improvements for updates, that's when it's ready for everyday use for the average person.
    First, the Steam Deck does use Wayland, for the presentation layer of its Game Mode. So there's that.

    Second, I said I wanted wayland in Desktop mode. I'm not playing games in desktop mode, so again I don't know why you're rabitting on about gaming on the Pi. I suspect you don't know how the Steam Deck works because you're all over the place with irrelevant logic.

    I've used Wayland since Ubuntu 20.04, I dev all the time using a Wayland-based Ubuntu station on a much weaker laptop than the Deck, and it works fine. So I don't know what all the fuss is about as per mdedetrich thinking and your thinking. Actually, Wayland has been a blessing in my multi-monitor, heterogenous-dpi setup after years of pain with X, but then I'm a server-side quant coder and not a graphics-side coder so maybe the latter people have more experience of problems than my close-to-zero problems in the past 18 months (after what was admittedly a bumpy start 2019/20).
    Last edited by vegabook; 19 May 2022, 11:50 AM.

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  • V1tol
    replied
    The only reason why I don't use Wayland is Novideo as a videocard. I could use it on my laptop in Intel mode just fine and offload games to NVIDIA but since I bought an external monitor to use as primary one, Wayland is a no-go with Lolvidia for me.

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  • RejectModernity
    replied
    Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
    I think it makes more sense to use X11 for the Deck. Xwayland adds overhead on a system with limited specs, and X11 can keep up just fine at 1080p or lower. Add to the fact that Wayland just isn't quite stable enough for a product like this.

    I've been using Wayland+KDE for a while now and though I have an overall good experience, there is still a lot to be done before I would recommend Wayland to someone who isn't a Linux veteran (I would recommend KDE to most people though).
    IDK man what overheads you are talking about. Xorg and xwayland show basically the same performance.
    https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...ayland21&num=1

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  • khnazile
    replied
    Still no trace of 'wayland robustness' that was promised to reach maturity this year

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  • Grinness
    replied
    Since the release of Gnome 42 ( I really don't like it) moved to KDE Plasma Wayland on arch (Plasma version 5.24.5)

    The issues I experience are the following:

    1. turn on/off external TV (HDMI) crashes latte dock (bug reported) -- it restarts automatically
    2. switching monitor layout may cause issue with background (goes black)
    3. yuzu does not output video using RADV Vulkan, it requires: env QT_QPA_PLATFORM=xcb yuzu (aka running in xwayland)


    All the rest works no problem (e.g. steam, firefox, blender, lutris, onlyoffice, skype, pcsx2 with vulkan backend, ........)
    No issue with cut& paste and clipboard, etc, etc ....


    Edit: Above on amd opensource stack (rx480)

    Leave a comment:


  • schmidtbag
    replied
    Originally posted by vegabook View Post
    Yeah personal experience the Deck is quite performant with its 4c8t and with 16 gig RAM and a very decent GPU it's 100% capable of taking on a bit of graphics API layering. After all that's similar to what Proton is doing (DirectX -> Vulkan). Also even my Raspberry Pi is doing fine now with Wayland so Deck will 100% be fine 'cos it's at least triple the speed on CPU and probably 10x on GPU.
    Things like DXVK spread out CPU resources across multiple threads, where even though the overall CPU usage goes up, the performance goes up with it. The same does not apply to XWayland. Also, those translation layers are a matter of necessity. The added overhead of XWayland is entirely avoidable.

    I don't understand your point about the Pi. Wayland, when used as intended, is less resource intensive. I doubt you're playing a lot of games on your Pi (other than maybe some emulators), so, it makes perfect sense to use Wayland. I have Wayland set up on an ARM-based laptop and it actually works better than X11. The Deck has a lot more grunt but it also has a lot more work to do. As long as XWayland is still necessary to play certain games, it's unnecessary overhead.

    If the next-gen Deck has 6c/12t or higher and Wayland gets a bit more polished, I think then it would be fine to use. Alluding to caligula's post, when headlines consistently stop mentioning Wayland improvements for updates, that's when it's ready for everyday use for the average person.
    Last edited by schmidtbag; 19 May 2022, 11:08 AM.

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  • skeevy420
    replied
    Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
    I think it makes more sense to use X11 for the Deck. Xwayland adds overhead on a system with limited specs, and X11 can keep up just fine at 1080p or lower. Add to the fact that Wayland just isn't quite stable enough for a product like this.

    I've been using Wayland+KDE for a while now and though I have an overall good experience, there is still a lot to be done before I would recommend Wayland to someone who isn't a Linux veteran (I would recommend KDE to most people though).
    Well said. I've been using Plasma's Wayland session for the past few releases and while most all my annoyances are fixed or mitigated I'd still put a new or intermediate user on any environment's X session for the time being. GNOME, KDE, Enlightenment, Mate, Cinnamon...doesn't really matter which. About my only exception would be for single use kiosks running Sway and some random GUI program.

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  • mdedetrich
    replied
    Originally posted by vegabook View Post
    Kinda sucks that the Steam Deck (which uses plasma) reverts to X in desktop mode, with all the resulting multi-monitor problems that creates (forgets orientations / placement etc if not powered down properly or if any monitor switched off). Hopefully the better Wayland support will find its way onto the Deck at some stage soon. Because it's a great little super-cost-effective lightweight dev machine when hooked up to a monitor.
    Wayland in its current state is not recommendable because of the issues it has, sorry to burst your bubble but it still has a long way to go. KDE 5.25 may help but that would need to be evaluated.

    Leave a comment:


  • vegabook
    replied
    Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
    I think it makes more sense to use X11 for the Deck. Xwayland adds overhead on a system with limited specs, and X11 can keep up just fine at 1080p or lower. Add to the fact that Wayland just isn't quite stable enough for a product like this.

    I've been using Wayland+KDE for a while now and though I have an overall good experience, there is still a lot to be done before I would recommend Wayland to someone who isn't a Linux veteran (I would recommend KDE to most people though).
    Yeah personal experience the Deck is quite performant with its 4c8t and with 16 gig RAM and a very decent GPU it's 100% capable of taking on a bit of graphics API layering. After all that's similar to what Proton is doing (DirectX -> Vulkan). Also even my Raspberry Pi is doing fine now with Wayland so Deck will 100% be fine 'cos it's at least triple the speed on CPU and probably 10x on GPU.

    Leave a comment:


  • ezst036
    replied
    Originally posted by caligula View Post
    Yes, any day now

    KDE Plasma 5.25 Beta Released With Many Improvements, Wayland Support Maturing
    KDE Plasma 5.24 Released With Wayland Support In Increasingly Great Shape
    Plasma 5.23 Picking Up Latest Breeze Evolution Style, SDDM Lands Native Wayland Support
    KDE Plasma 5.22 Released With Much Better Wayland Support, Usability Enhancements
    KDE Plasma 5.21 Released With Better Wayland Support, Desktop Improvements
    KDE Plasma 5.20 Released With Better Wayland Support, Many New Features
    KDE Plasma 5.19 Released After Lots Of Polishing, Better Wayland Support
    KDE PLasma 5.18 LTS brings , ..., ..., various X11 and Wayland fixes for KWin
    KDE Plasma 5.17 Released With Wayland Improvements, Better HiDPI
    KDE's EGLStreams back-end for the KWin Wayland compositor has been merged! The KDE Plasma 5.16 release
    KDE Plasma 5.15 Released With Wayland Improvements, Fixes To "Annoying Problems"
    Plasma 5.14.0 features ..., continued Wayland improvements, and plenty of bug fixes.
    KDE Plasma 5.13 Is Making Great Improvements On Its Wayland Support
    KDE Plasma 5.12 LTS Released With Much Better Wayland Support, Other Improvements
    KDE Plasma 5.11 Rolls Into Beta With New System Settings, Better Wayland Support
    Plasma 5.10 features ..., Wayland support improvements
    KDE Plasma 5.9 Hits The Web With Global Menus, Better Wayland Support
    This.

    KDE devs deserve credit for getting it done; however it is a little like groundhog day around here every time there's a new KDE release. Can we predict that KDE 5.26 will include better Wayland support?

    Leave a comment:

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