Mesa 24.0 Gets Asahi AGX Gallium3D To OpenGL 3.3 For Apple Silicon Hardware

[vextium]

M1 and M2? we on M3 now, with crapple old stuff throw in trash and buy new now.

M1 and M2 are still excellent CPUs, I dislike Apple, don't get me wrong, but you have to admit their hardware game is giving x86 a run for its money, and that's good. Now just for RISC-V to have their time in the spotlight.

[ehansin]

To be fair, I am writing this on a 2017 MacBook Air (admittedly running macOS 12.x, latest it will support.) Thing is solid for my needs, good ergonomics, etc. Fits well in my backpack, allows me to work wherever. Most of the "PC" laptops out there feel like cheap junk, or clunky, etc. I dislike Apple for a lot of reasons, but this thing has served its purpose well (and was a re-purpose cast-off from work.)

[Developer12]

asahi linux is getting better and progress is being made. devs are skilled. that is true, however asahi currently still have many shortcomings. (no sound, incomplete opengl, no vulkan yet, and some more..). but, even if we choose the patient stance and wait for missing features to be implemented and general progress to be made, there are still major problems with this linux port.

- macos becomes a linux dependency (a fat one, around 100gb "bios")
- linux inherit apple screwups on its own platform (see the recent fiasco about sonoma update )
- the lead dev have some strange ideas (for example he thinks ability to change resolution should not exist, as a result gfx driver is always rendering at maximum dimension, and users cannot change it, he thinks scaling desktop is the way to go instead).
- booting off external harddrive cannot be done if macos isn't installed.
- you cannot install linux directly but you are required to install macos first, then linux. you will always have to keep macos around.
- lead dev also don't have proper ideas about freedom to choose, enforcing his views on users is a no brainer for him. (what subsystem you should use, he choose for you. )
- he is also quick on silencing people and banning everyone who says things he don't want to see or hear. (and there's a lot of things he don't want to see or hear, the first one is discussing his choices or the way he choose to implement stuff)
- the overall asahi team is very agressive and have degenerate opinions they will enforce on you (they are strong supporters of woke and lgbt, they will force you to speak using their new norms, their new words, and if you're not on their political side they will simply ban you).
- the way this port is implemented cannot be discussed, the lead dev marcan knows what is good for you even if you disagree. (if you do you'll get banned anyway, once you're banned he will portray you as crazy, evil, a mean person, on the sites he controls, and you will have no opportunity to nuance what he says about you).

there is more that could be added to that list, but you get the idea. to conclude i'd say: porting linux to apple's new arch is good, and would be a benefit for linux world as a whole. ability to run linux on most hardware is a good thing. apple new arch is powerful and consume little energy, it is also silent and produce little heat. all that is nice. but the way asahi linux intend to proceed is to to piggy back linux on top of macos. the way it is implemented is discutable and is not about studying about how to fully unlock the hardware for linux. i for one thought i could ignore their ideological talk, but i was quite wrong. it is strongly enforced on you whatever the level of interaction you will have with them (even on technical side). it is unbearable. i ended up buying myself a proper linux laptop that is ready now, and doesn't have all the limitations of asahi, the bad design, bad choices and the very toxic community. if you want arm, buy raspi, pine64, or similar platform. avoid asahi like plague.

Jesus. where to even begin unpacking this?

The openGL is complete and conformant. No, you don't need to have macOS installed, only a few MB of bootloader shim. Pretty much everything else you said is insane BS.

Go take your meds.

[Developer12]

In many ways this is good. It means that we will be able to pick up the (now supported) hardware dirt cheap second hand as all the Apple fans have ditched them for the later model.

I think Apple hardware tends to be fairly ugly and fragile, but I don't mind dumping it in the TV cabinet for a movie player, or perhaps in the spare room as a home server.

(Yes, a Raspberry Pi is probably still going to be better power-wise and ex-business surplus prices of admittedly better hardware (ThinkPad, ThinkStation Tiny) will also be cheaper but choice is good and often helps bring down prices further)

Couldn't agree more. I want a fast shiny M1 machine or whatever, but I'm not probably going to pay the apple price for it. I think the cheapest-of-the-cheap model started at 700 bucks or so for an M1?

I can afford to wait a while and pick it up used from someone upgrading. It'll still be far more powerful/power efficient than anything else I have.

[qarium]

asahi linux is getting better and progress is being made. devs are skilled. that is true, however asahi currently still have many shortcomings. (no sound, incomplete opengl, no vulkan yet, and some more..). but, even if we choose the patient stance and wait for missing features to be implemented and general progress to be made, there are still major problems with this linux port.

- macos becomes a linux dependency (a fat one, around 100gb "bios")
- linux inherit apple screwups on its own platform (see the recent fiasco about sonoma update )
- the lead dev have some strange ideas (for example he thinks ability to change resolution should not exist, as a result gfx driver is always rendering at maximum dimension, and users cannot change it, he thinks scaling desktop is the way to go instead).
- booting off external harddrive cannot be done if macos isn't installed.
- you cannot install linux directly but you are required to install macos first, then linux. you will always have to keep macos around.
- lead dev also don't have proper ideas about freedom to choose, enforcing his views on users is a no brainer for him. (what subsystem you should use, he choose for you. )
- he is also quick on silencing people and banning everyone who says things he don't want to see or hear. (and there's a lot of things he don't want to see or hear, the first one is discussing his choices or the way he choose to implement stuff)
- the overall asahi team is very agressive and have degenerate opinions they will enforce on you (they are strong supporters of woke and lgbt, they will force you to speak using their new norms, their new words, and if you're not on their political side they will simply ban you).
- the way this port is implemented cannot be discussed, the lead dev marcan knows what is good for you even if you disagree. (if you do you'll get banned anyway, once you're banned he will portray you as crazy, evil, a mean person, on the sites he controls, and you will have no opportunity to nuance what he says about you).

there is more that could be added to that list, but you get the idea. to conclude i'd say: porting linux to apple's new arch is good, and would be a benefit for linux world as a whole. ability to run linux on most hardware is a good thing. apple new arch is powerful and consume little energy, it is also silent and produce little heat. all that is nice. but the way asahi linux intend to proceed is to to piggy back linux on top of macos. the way it is implemented is discutable and is not about studying about how to fully unlock the hardware for linux. i for one thought i could ignore their ideological talk, but i was quite wrong. it is strongly enforced on you whatever the level of interaction you will have with them (even on technical side). it is unbearable. i ended up buying myself a proper linux laptop that is ready now, and doesn't have all the limitations of asahi, the bad design, bad choices and the very toxic community. if you want arm, buy raspi, pine64, or similar platform. avoid asahi like plague.

Yes exactly... you are 100% right... no matter how good these apple m1/m2/m3 are i would never buy it.

and i see the same in the RISC-V people who used the same intollerance and arrogance and Toxicity agaist the Libre-SOC people
thats the reason why the Libre-SOC people did switch to the OpenPOWER isa instead.
the RISC-V claim they are the future and the ONLY future then you check benchmarks and their performance is very small and any ARM or OpenPOWER chip or even X86 chip is better.
its really a mystery what all these toxic people do there.

man what you write is so true ... macos as a linux dependency is a full joke

this is all really a joke if apple does not officially support linux no one should buy this crap. really its an insult.

and you know what is the joke on top of all this jokes.... these are the same people who claim that people like MY PERSON are Toxic.

and of course if you talk agaist woke and lgbt and left-liberal marxist/communist satanic propaganda in general they call you toxic.

and yes if you want ARM there a Rockchip rk3588 notebook also the pi5 did a nice performance pump compared to the pi4 one.

https://www.cnx-software.com/2023/08/27/cool-pi-arm-linux-laptop-rk3588/

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/new-14-inch-Rockchip-RK3588-Octa_1600546769041.html

if people want more performance a notebook with the upcoming Ryzen 5 7500G Radeon 780M APU should be good.

[OneTimeShot]

and i see the same in the RISC-V people who used the same intollerance and arrogance and Toxicity agaist the Libre-SOC people
thats the reason why the Libre-SOC people did switch to the OpenPOWER isa instead.
the RISC-V claim they are the future and the ONLY future then you check benchmarks and their performance is very small and any ARM or OpenPOWER chip or even X86 chip is better.

Seriously? People don't like Libre-SOC because they haven't delivered anything. Not even a GPU that does a frame buffer, let alone something that does Vulkan. Now they are working on an entire SOC, and again nothing.

The reason that they were ignored by RISC-V was because they were talking nonsense. Seriously go and watch their presentations - I know NOTHING about GPU ISAs and even I can tell it's garbage.

That they were bad mouthing people and taking tax payer money really annoys me. Otherwise it'd be "well at least they are having some fun doing FPGA stuff"

[Eirikr1848]

this is all really a joke if apple does not officially support linux no one should buy this crap. really its an insult.
…..
and of course if you talk agaist woke and lgbt and left-liberal marxist/communist satanic propaganda in general they call you toxic.

Why bother using the most woke, actually COMMUNIst OS, made by the COMMUNIty of people?

http://Hate to tell you… but Linux is that woke communist OS…. https://news.itsfoss.com/linus-torvalds-woke-communists/#:~:text=While%20this%20was%20irrelevant%20to%20th e%20context%20of,think%20you%E2%80%99re%20a%20moro n%20of%20the%20first%20order.

[nsklaus]

and i see the same in the RISC-V people who used the same intollerance and arrogance and Toxicity agaist the Libre-SOC people
thats the reason why the Libre-SOC people did switch to the OpenPOWER isa instead.
the RISC-V claim they are the future and the ONLY future then you check benchmarks and their performance is very small and any ARM or OpenPOWER chip or even X86 chip is better.
its really a mystery what all these toxic people do there.

thank you for these details, i didn't know. if it is so, i'll stay away from risc-v as well.

and you know what is the joke on top of all this jokes.... these are the same people who claim that people like MY PERSON are Toxic.
and of course if you talk agaist woke and lgbt and left-liberal marxist/communist satanic propaganda in general they call you toxic.

yes it's typical of those groups. they call us hater if we disagree with them or with the disruptive ideology they try to force on us, then, since we become "haters" it give them justification to also hate and reject us. does it sound stupid ? it's because it is. it is leftist ideas from carl popper about becoming intolerant toward those decide to label as "intolerants" it's a guideline for their militants toward those (the normal people) who do not accept the chaos they (leftists revolutionaries) introduce in societies. it's typical psychological warfare used to propagate unrest and division in societies in order to destroy its fundations. they accuse us of their bad deeds. then we appear to be on the same ground and it open possibility of endless accusation of intolerance bouncing back and forth. and for the records, i agree with you when you call them and their actions : "woke and lgbt and left-liberal marxist/communist satanic propaganda". and i didn't pull all this theory out of nowhere, i had a talk directly with marcan around two years ago and i got that quote from him about carl popper and george soros open-society fundation, and all that woke-lgbt-antifa militantism guidelines.

and yes if you want ARM there a Rockchip rk3588 notebook also the pi5 did a nice performance pump compared to the pi4 one.

https://www.cnx-software.com/2023/08/27/cool-pi-arm-linux-laptop-rk3588/

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/new-14-inch-Rockchip-RK3588-Octa_1600546769041.html

if people want more performance a notebook with the upcoming Ryzen 5 7500G Radeon 780M APU should be good.

i didn't know about these platforms thanks for the links.
for now i have choosen ryzen 7, 5700U based laptop. i hope to be back on sane, working, basic laptop. it should arrive in one or two days now.

[nsklaus]

Why bother using the most woke, actually COMMUNIst OS, made by the COMMUNIty of people?

http://Hate to tell you… but Linux is that woke communist OS…. https://news.itsfoss.com/linus-torvalds-woke-communists/#:~:text=While%20this%20was%20irrelevant%20to%20th e%20context%20of,think%20you%E2%80%99re%20a%20moro n%20of%20the%20first%20order.

people working together for a common-good, has nothing to do with communism. it is simple interaction and cooperation between people.
communism is something else entirely. i encourage everyone to read soljenitsyne. forced collectivisation of production, suppression of private property, unnatural leveling everything down to an horizontal social structure on the lowest common denominator.. (natural order is vertical, hierarchy based).. everywhere it has been tested it resulted in millions of deaths and suffering. opensource on the other hand pulls people upward, motivate people to improve knowledge and skills and it renders people more independants.

also, unixes family is bigger than just linux and clueless outspoken positions from mr Torvalds. i'm also very dispointed by him lately, for taking sides in very wrong ideologies, like buillying people on linux kernel mailing list to inject themselve with the genetic therapy against the flu. that was very wrong from him to do so. he used harsh words to suppress reasonable doubts and invalidate the debate altogether. as clueless as his opinion on what are communism and what is woke/lgbt/antifa ideology and the harm they do on societies.

[qarium]

Seriously? People don't like Libre-SOC because they haven't delivered anything. Not even a GPU that does a frame buffer, let alone something that does Vulkan. Now they are working on an entire SOC, and again nothing.
The reason that they were ignored by RISC-V was because they were talking nonsense. Seriously go and watch their presentations - I know NOTHING about GPU ISAs and even I can tell it's garbage.
That they were bad mouthing people and taking tax payer money really annoys me. Otherwise it'd be "well at least they are having some fun doing FPGA stuff"

"they haven't delivered anything"

what exactly did you expect ? honestly ? they did deliver an ISA (Simple-V) and logic-digital-design source code what you can put into a FPGA ...

of course you want a real chip but to produce a real chip you of course need a commercial company like RED SEMICONDUCTORs ?

"Not even a GPU that does a frame buffer"

you can download the digital design here:

https://git.libre-soc.org/

"let alone something that does Vulkan."

they already have something what does Vulkan... for that you just need a OpenPOWER cpu core and run
Mesa Vallium LLVMpipe
Google's SwiftShader
and then you have vulkan on a opensource design.

i do not know the status of the vulkan implementation writen in Simple-V ISA...

"Now they are working on an entire SOC, and again nothing."

even companies like AMD need 4-5 years from start to finish to produce a new design and they are very experienced.

"I know NOTHING about GPU ISAs and even I can tell it's garbage."

this alone contradict everything you say if your competence level is zero then you are not even allowed to talk.
then you are only allowed to listen.

"That they were bad mouthing people and taking tax payer money really annoys me."

i see this kind of argument always and everywhere if a opensource project has no money thats good and fine as soon as they get money from whatever source people like you always claim it is fraud.

just remember this point they did not get tax payer money before they have achieved anything
they always and only did get tax payer money after they did achieve important goals.

so it is not fraud as you claim they did only get money for achieve important goals.

goals for the betterment of humankind.