Mesa To Join Other Open-Source Projects With "Main" For Primary Code Branch

[krOoze]

blackmailer

It's "unethical-mailer" you racist monster!

PS: Also, your name is "denyiwid" now.

I'm just sitting here hoping that we can rename /etc/ to /config/ and do away with the GNU FHS cancer 3 letter directory names 70 years from when they were invented.

You are doing it all wrong. "etc" is Latin, and therefore cultural appropriation and non-inclusive to Romans. Now it can be changed tomorrow. You are welcome.

[Luke_Wolf]

7 Pages of technical commentary about a minor naming convention that relates to "trending" activism and I'm just sitting here hoping that we can rename /etc/ to /config/ and do away with the GNU FHS cancer 3 letter directory names 70 years from when they were invented.

Hah, I'll drink to that. plus all the shorthand named applications like "ls" when we've had tab auto-complete for forever and so long names don't matter.

[Luke_Wolf]

but I think inclusion is not seen as tool to get more output in the end (or maybe in 50 years or so) but the inclusion itself is the goal and then it does not help even from utilitarian standpoint.

The major goal should not be to make devs or people that want to become devs happy, but to create good services and products or good programs that people like and find useful.

That's exactly correct. The short version is that if the people who push these movements actually believe what they say they do, then they're brain damaged, because they do not understand the simple fact that people are different (Especially men and women), and so believe that the outcomes in all cases should be the same. They take this equity as a moral imperative and then attempt to fix reality by increasingly asinine measures, rather than simply realizing the truth... "Women can't be interested in something other than hard sciences, engineering, and programming... that must be society's fault!" they say. What women actually want, or whether it even benefits anyone doesn't matter to them, because the simple facts of reality are a moral evil to them.

[ms178]

Why it divides? Why group A should be bothered if it named master or main? For them they both are neutral. Changing from neutral to neutral doesn't change anything. But it will make group B happier. So why not? It's minor simple change.

I have heard that argument with gay marriage before but there and now it did not convince me - it boils down to that we can't please everyone on this world and that the majority rule is there for a reason (also tradition matters for some). That argument also fails to grasp that it isn't neutral for everyone in that group what the outcome is going to be - people of group A actively oppose this change for various reasons. If group B does get the votes of the majority though, that would be a different matter and of course it is up to the Mesa community to decide in the end where they want to go.

Like I said, the name doesn't really matter to me but I respect that there are people to whom it matters. If it helps mesa become more popular and attract more contributors, then it's a good change.

I would like to see these potential contributors to prove causation that this change leads to more contributors to the project who wouldn't have contributed otherwise. And the burden of proof here lies with the proponents of that change as otherwise there would be no need to change anything.

[microcode]

Clearly there is a lot of hostility to these changes, because the stream of projects adopting these ideas provokes a very consistent response in these forums, just as the Linux code of conduct changes about two years ago created a lot of fearful responses. In that case: if the fear was really motivated by technical concerns, it's time for opponents to concede the fears were unjustified.

It's not fear, it is disgust. Disgust that they would betray everyone to jerk off some political movement, to feel good about themselves at everyone's expense while achieving nothing.

[F.Ultra]

Speaking for Orwell?

Unlike krOoze, I don't believe it's the Russians doing this, although I'm sure they take every advantage to win PR points when they can. We're doing this to ourselves, as we have been for a long time. The "enemy" is Political Anarchism, in the sense of French Revolution Liberté, égalité, fraternité. The idea that humans can organise themselves into non-coercive decentralised meritocratic structures (like the Free Software movement) is anathema to the State and entrenched power structures, including political Parties.

You miss the subtlety of newspeak in this particular case, the diminishment and redefinition of the word "master" gives the State the monopoly on the meaning of adjective master: main/principal; that is an authority on/of something, in this case technical. Totalitarian-Authoritarianism only works when people accept there is only the single power structure (the authority), with everything else subjugated into it. I my opinion, this is also why there attacks on experts, scientific authorities, independent journalists and publishers etc.

This is not a redefinition of the word "master" nor is it done by "the State". Hate it, love it or be indifferent about it but the reasoning behind this change is not redefinition but stating that master should not be used in this context when they think that main works better.

And no I don't speak for Orwell but lot's of people here tend to do for some reason. Lot's of people also seem to be confused about what newspeak really is or how it was designed to work which includes you here since it was never about giving the state a monopoly on anything. Newspeak is specifically designed to prohibit people from even thinking about revolting about Ingsoc.

[F.Ultra]

I see you have maybe read the Wikipedia. IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH. It is a decent book; just give it a chance. Go and read it. I dare you.

You assume way to much, FYI I have a first edition from 1949 in my bookshelf and I have read it several times over the last decades.

Non-newspeak is not even forbidden in the book. In fact, "nothing was illegal, since there were no longer any laws". The problem is not that it is forbidden. The problem is the thought policing people will get to you.

Talking about things being forbidden or not is somewhat disingenuous since you could be punished completely without having done anything wrong, they could always force you to take blame for whatever crime they invented anyway.

Newspeak was not invented to avoid being picked up by the though police, it was invented so that you wouldn't even be able to think in a revolutionary way. Aka once everybody would speak newspeak (and once newspeak was finished, remember that newspeak was far from finished in the world that Winston lived in) then Ingsoc would no longer have to even fear that people would be uprising since they wouldn't even be able to construct such thoughts in their minds.
[/QUOTE]

If you do not want to make it about Orwell, then ok. Keep your insults and belittling, and structure your arguments. So what are your position? If the "good guys" fool with the language, then in that case it is great?

What insults and belittling? Do you mean when I wrote that you didn't understand how newspeak works, well you have showed again that you don't, in fact the quote from the book that you had in your first post even spelled out exactly what I'm trying to explain here.

When I made the original comment, I just shown the person that I answered to a mirror. You can interpret the 1984 quote however you wish. I did not want to appropriate Orwell, just saying what the poster said and the book quote looked the same to me. IDK, explain how it is not the same, and not very similar road to hell paved with good intentions.
If it was one off change in some obscure repo, nobody would say anything. Problem is we are starting to see a pattern. There even already are compiled lists of so-called "non-inclusive language" (something like a Newspeak dictionary draft edition).

It's not the same, and newspeak is not "road to hell paved with good intentions". Newspeak is about controlling the masses and prohibiting uprising by controlling the way that the citizens think while the change of name for the main branch in Mesa is some people saying that the word master have a bad history and if a more appropriate word like main would be used instead then that would be better to which the Mesa project agreed.

I offered no argument for if I think that this change is good or bad since I was simply pointing out that this had zero to do with newspeak or 1984.

Newspeak would be e.g if the US government would make it mandatory to refer to either the GOP or the DEMs as "my party" which would make it psychologically harder (in the context of a novel like 1984) to vote for another party, ensuring that "my party" would always be the winner. A property that neither master nor main have for the Mesa project.

[F.Ultra]

Every time I watch Star Wars and someone says "master Jedi" I get seriously triggered!! The should change the movie and use "main Jedi" because context doesn't matter for this evil words!! /s

Where in all of the Star Wars universe were there ever a Jedi Master named Jedi?

[krOoze]

You assume way to much, FYI I have a first edition from 1949 in my bookshelf and I have read it several times over the last decades.

Cool, cool, I have gold-plated edition in the shape of Orwell's head.
Look, I don't have all day for exchanging insults and one-uppery, as fun as that is...

Talking about things being forbidden or not is somewhat disingenuous since you could be punished completely without having done anything wrong, they could always force you to take blame for whatever crime they invented anyway.

Newspeak was not invented to avoid being picked up by the though police, it was invented so that you wouldn't even be able to think in a revolutionary way. Aka once everybody would speak newspeak (and once newspeak was finished, remember that newspeak was far from finished in the world that Winston lived in) then Ingsoc would no longer have to even fear that people would be uprising since they wouldn't even be able to construct such thoughts in their minds.

You are missing the point. Neither it is finished in our world. Your claim was that the politically replaced word is not forbidden, therefore it is all good.

He has no freedom of choice in any direction whatever. On the other hand his actions are not regulated by law or by any clearly formulated code of behaviour.

What insults and belittling?

Your "just another moron who does not understand" shtick. Which you kindly reinsulted twice above, just to be sure. The powers of projection...

It's not the same, and newspeak is not "road to hell paved with good intentions".

There was something subtly wrong with Syme. You could not say that he was unorthodox. He believed in the principles of Ingsoc, [...], not merely with sincerity but with a sort of restless zeal, an up-to-dateness of information [...]

the change of name for the main branch in Mesa is some people saying that the word master have a bad history and if a more appropriate word like main would be used instead then that would be better to which the Mesa project agreed.

What people? I want names, places, times.
All I ever hear are people speaking for some poor mysterious someone. Yet I never hear that underpriviledged someone that would be in SW development, if just it wasn't for one darned innocent word.
Look, I am a pessimist and think we are screwed anyway. But while you build the dystopia, at least give me some proper narative that I can get behind. So far the excuses for these changes are laughable, when anybody even bothers to explain why drag politics and divisiveness into SW. I have standards, you know...

no softening of manners [...] has ever brought human equality a millimeter nearer.

Should probably mention some of this cancer just spread to the Vulkan ecosystem too. Sure wasting no time...
Anyway see y'all at next two minutes hate. I hear there might be people that did not switch branches from "master" yet.

[ZeroPointEnergy]

Where in all of the Star Wars universe were there ever a Jedi Master named Jedi?

Is this a serious question? They are repeatedly addressed as "master Jedi". It is not their name but their title.

But that is all over now, because we are all morons who can't understand that some words describe different things in different contexts.