AMD Linux Graphics No Longer Unusable For Blender Developers: 251 To 9 Seconds Speed-Up

[qarium]

I try to stay out of these kinds of debates but I have to ask about "meaningless bits of GPU drivers"... since when is a driver stack "meaningless bits" ?
We actually release under MIT/X11 rather than GPL.

"do stupid things (like pay extra for substandard desktop hardware by AMD)"

for him everyone who buys nvidia is a genius and everyone who buys amd hardware is stupid..

a 7900xtx is 200€ cheaper than a 4080 its fucking cheaper but he claims amd customers pay extra.

[mSparks]

as you can see the cheapest 7900XTX is 949€

if you compare this to a Nvidia card like the 4080 1149€
what is a 200€ difference

A 50% bump in performance in Cyberpunk 2077, for example

and on linux benchmarks show the amd card lead the most benchmarks

Strange, I can't seem to find a CUDA or a GTA V benchmark for AMD on Linux, how much does it lead by? Or are they just not things people would expect to work when paying circa $1,000 for a desktop GPU?

I did find

Which is the kind of benchmark I would look at for a desktop GPU, certainly no lead for AMD there.

Like it or not, Nvidia sets the standard for desktop GPUs.
By definition that means AMD is substandard.

[qarium]

A 50% bump in performance in Cyberpunk 2077, for example

Strange, I can't seem to find a CUDA or a GTA V benchmark for AMD on Linux, how much does it lead by? Or are they just not things people would expect to work when paying circa $1,000 for a desktop GPU?
I did find

Which is the kind of benchmark I would look at for a desktop GPU, certainly no lead for AMD there.
Like it or not, Nvidia sets the standard for desktop GPUs.
By definition that means AMD is substandard.

Nvidia only looks good if you activate graphic effects that are not playable and only usefull for useless benchmarks.
this means do you really play Cyberpunk 2077 in 4K with raytracing at 29FPS ??? i can tell you this years ago by accident i had a 4K TV with only 30hz and all the games like cyberpunk where unplayable my TV right now is 4K at 60hz and this is playable.
this means 29FPS is not playable. this means raytracing is only a benchmark feature without any real usercase for real gaming.
now you say 21FPS for the 7900XTX is even worse that this yes but no one plays with 21FPS also no one play with 29FPS...
as soon as you benchmark without raytracing then AMD wins means in the mode you REALLY play AMD wins.

your second argument OpenCL is literally death. and Nvidia killed it. they did sapotage the openCL standard.

"Like it or not, Nvidia sets the standard for desktop GPUs.
By definition that means AMD is substandard."

only true if you benchmark with graphic effects who have zero use for real gaming.
if you want to buy a GPU to only watch benchmarks then yes the Nvidia gpu is great
as soon as you really want to play the game you turn off raytracing and result is AMD wins.

now you maybe say you do not only have 29FPS because you activate DLSS and then you have many frames
well if you like the illusion that your card is fast enough but it is clearly not the case in real world then yes.

and the is true for amd you turn your 21FPS into many frames with FSR1.0/2.0/3.0

[mSparks]

do you really play Cyberpunk 2077 in 4K with raytracing at 29FPS ???

I'd play cyberpunk on a games console tbh.

For desktop what I want is the best compute performance per watt per $

Not dealing with stupid bugs where blender takes 251 seconds to do a task instead of 1 second because AMD don't care about desktop GPUs drivers.

[qarium]

I'd play cyberpunk on a games console tbh.

this means all your talk about 4K cyberpunk 2077 with raytracing was all bullshit and smoke and mirror...
because the gameconsoles like playstation5 all display cyberpunk 2077 without raytracing...
you see your arguments are nonsense you can buy the 7900XTX and play cyberpunk 2077 and you lose nothing.

raytracing is for benchmarkers not for gamers.

For desktop what I want is the best compute performance per watt per $

ok to be honest this sounds sane. but as your Geekbench 5 compute openCL shows that all what Nvidia is faster
is the same ratio what is Nvidia is more expensive.

compared to a 7900XTX only the 4080 and 4090 is faster and the 4080 is 200€ more and the 4090 is 650€ more money.

this means that you just get what you pay for...

Not dealing with stupid bugs where blender takes 251 seconds to do a task instead of 1 second because AMD don't care about desktop GPUs drivers.

you talk about a bug who was ficked very fast by a valve employee..

if you see performance per dollar there is litterally no difference between a 7900XTX and a 4080 and a 4090
you just get what you pay for.

Nvidia had some advantages with OptiX but soon AMD has similar feature for Blender3D.

for AI workloads like pytorch amd ROCm/HIP works very well. also pytorch has vulkan backend..

https://pytorch.org/tutorials/prototype/vulkan_workflow.html

[mSparks]

this means all your talk about 4K cyberpunk 2077 with raytracing was all bullshit and smoke and mirror...

No, its an easy access benchmark of the graphics specific compute difference inherent in the silicon between AMD and NVidia
a 4080, NOT Nvidias current flagship card can do 50% more than AMDs flagship card.

that's not a small difference, especially compared to less than I spent on my last meal out.

compared to a 7900XTX only the 4080 and 4090 is faster and the 4080 is 200€ more and the 4090 is 650€ more money.

compared to ANY nvidia card, any AMD is completely incapable of a fairly wide variety of tasks desktop GPUs are best suited for.
CUDA is some 90% faster than openCL

which means in actual compute terms that 7900XTX is matched if not beaten by a 3050.
Now a $230 card.

https://geizhals.de/?fs=3050&hloc=de

[qarium]

No, its an easy access benchmark of the graphics specific compute difference inherent in the silicon between AMD and NVidia
a 4080, NOT Nvidias current flagship card can do 50% more than AMDs flagship card.

This difference is only relevant for non-gamers who do 3D work with Blender with OptiX lets say there is a raytracing version of ROCm/HIP blender then the card would be faster at the same visual quality.
so if you are a 3D artist and you NEVER game then you get my blessing the 4080 and 4090 is faster.

but for gamers this is nonsense no one play at 29FPS every gamer will turn raytracing off. and if you do so the 7900XTX is faster.

"its an easy access benchmark"

a benchmark only without any effect outside of benchmarking because in real games you need to turn of raytracing.

"the graphics specific compute difference inherent in the silicon between AMD and NVidia"

yes only relevant for 3D artists who use OptiX with Blender3D-.-- outside of that it has no absolut no merit.

"a 4080, NOT Nvidias current flagship card can do 50% more than AMDs flagship card."

you only get 50% more in Blender with OptiX for real games you have to turn of raytracing and then the benefit is not only zero but the 7900XTX is also faster without raytracing.

that's not a small difference, especially compared to less than I spent on my last meal out.

it does not matter if the difference is 200€ or 2000€ or 2 million euro outside of Blender3D/OptiX you can not use it.

so if you are not a 3D artist you have no use for that.

compared to ANY nvidia card, any AMD is completely incapable of a fairly wide variety of tasks desktop GPUs are best suited for.
CUDA is some 90% faster than openCL

which means in actual compute terms that 7900XTX is matched if not beaten by a 3050.
Now a $230 card.
https://geizhals.de/?fs=3050&hloc=de

"CUDA is some 90% faster than openCL"

at source-code level ROCm-HIP is the same as CUDA it is only agaist the law to make it binary compatible to CUDA but at source code level this is perfectly legal. any opensource software like blender will be just fine with that.

this binary compatibility of cuda only hit you with closed source software... but we are here in opensource world so HIP is just fine.

if cuda is 90% faster than openCL thats fine because OpenCL is death no one use OpenCL..

Blender3D even abolished the OpenCL renderer...

[mSparks]

This difference is only relevant for non-gamers who do 3D work with Blender with OptiX lets say there is a raytracing version of ROCm/HIP blender then the card would be faster at the same visual quality.

Gamers should just buy a games console. Microsoft or Playstation, its gonna be AMD.
Desktop is mostly non-gamers, doing real work, in the day job. Which is the topic, and there AMD is an expensive mistake, per the OP; this is because AMD only care about games (and even there they do not set the standard).

you only get 50% more in Blender with OptiX for real games you have to turn of raytracing and then the benefit is not only zero but the 7900XTX is also faster without raytracing.

Do you need more time to think that through, or is there gaming in the Blender 3D modelling software I've never heard of?

[qarium]

Gamers should just buy a games console. Microsoft or Playstation, its gonna be AMD.
Desktop is mostly non-gamers, doing real work, in the day job. Which is the topic, and there AMD is an expensive mistake, per the OP; this is because AMD only care about games (and even there they do not set the standard).
Do you need more time to think that through, or is there gaming in the Blender 3D modelling software I've never heard of?

dude you do a logical error really... you mix up desktop with workstation.
you claim AMD is substandard desktop hardware... then all you talk about is workstation performance.
well why not say: AMD is substandard workstation hardware for 3D Artists ?
then you say gamers should buy playstation what is AMD hardware...

why i am allowed to play cyberpunk2077 on playstation without raytracing but on desktop i am not allowed to play it without raytracing ?

dude you claim people do work on desktop instead of doing work on a workstation... and desktop gamers do not exit in your world.

"Which is the topic"

NO not true workstation doing work was NEVER the topic.

"and there AMD is an expensive mistake"

AMDs GPU marketshare in the Workstation market is really low compared to Nvidia.

", or is there gaming in the Blender 3D modelling software I've never heard of?"

of course there is a Blender3D gaming engine... but they removed it in version 2.8 ...

again no one knows why you talk about workstation if you use the word desktop.

[mSparks]

dude you do a logical error really... you mix up desktop with workstation.
you claim AMD is substandard desktop hardware... then all you talk about is workstation performance.

Obviously its just substandard in every respect.

Can't do blender
Can't do games (e.g. GTA V)
a $1000 AMD GPU is on par with a $200 Nvidia GPU for compute, e.g. the jetson nano
Doesn't have any of the ML stuff

https://aws.amazon.com/nvidia/

or

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuV-HyslPxk

And while yes, the 7900XTX (and only the 7900XTX) is finally a reasonably "competitive" GPU from AMD, after something like a decade or two of them not even trying.
If you don't need what nvidia is selling for your desktop
You'd be better just picking up an RTX3050 for 1/3 of the price, having access to what nvidia is selling, for no noticeable performance difference from that 7900XTX and none of the headaches that come with AMDs low effort desktop GPU drivers.

And if you don't care about the headaches, just grab a A770 from intel for $350

And if all you want to talk about is games, just buy a games console and STFU.