NVIDIA Publishes Code For X Synchronization Fences

[pingufunkybeat]

Then go advocate Windows, you obviously don't know the real benefits of running Linux if being Open is the only one you can come up with.

Please tell me what the real benefits of running Linux are, I am really interested.

I would like to learn from such an experienced user who has followed the scene for 6 years.

Please don't say that it's fucking FPS and video decoding.

I never did. But your group constantly hops the fence to take shots needlessly. You're here telling everyone to either run Open drivers or they'd be better off running Windows. Don't believe me? see your own post above!

My own post above said that another user did NOT say that you are better off running windows.

You have serious issues with basic reading.

And you are confusing the request for specs and open drivers with "needless shots". Nvidia is making lots of $$$ off Linux and in return I would like to see specs. Not just me, but pretty much everyone involved in Linux development.

I don't care what you do with your system, knock yourself out, but I'd like some specs, so people running Nvidia cards are not dependent on Nvidia's benevolence for continued support.

Nvidia will be fine in my eyes once they release specs, like Intel and AMD.

[pingufunkybeat]

mugginz, I'll need you to be specific.

Who demanded that Catalyst and the Nvidia blob must stop existing?

There are users who will refuse to use them, but I don't remember anybody who said that they will be unhappy with a free driver until the blob is dead.

Refresh my memory. If you claim that I said it, I will laugh at you.

[bridgman]

Why would anyone have an issue with open drivers while they are also free to use the closed ones?

The core issue seems to be each person's belief that killing off the drivers they *don't* use would allow the drivers they *do* use to progress more quickly and make them more happy. There's obviously an element of truth to this, but once you look at the details...

- a lot of the work on open drivers is done by community developers outside AMD;
- a lot of the work on closed drivers is shared across multiple OSes and would have to be done even if we killed fglrx

... the benefit to the other driver would be relatively tiny.

[mugginz]

mugginz, I'll need you to be specific.

Who demanded that Catalyst and the Nvidia blob must stop existing?

There are users who will refuse to use them, but I don't remember anybody who said that they will be unhappy with a free driver until the blob is dead.

Refresh my memory. If you claim that I said it, I will laugh at you.

So you're saying no one is questioning the legitimacy of the closed drivers?

[pingufunkybeat]

This argument has always been about SPECS. The lack of specs is making Linux desktop dependent on one company and their binary software.

The counterarguments go on about how much better the 3d performance is using the blob and how CUDA this and VDPAU that.

But people like me would like specs. Once we have specs, you can CUDA and VDPAU all you want.

And if a request for SPECS keeps people replying about WoW on Wine and special 3d software in professional CAD companies, then I have to wonder what the hell is wrong with these people.

I won't take your CAD and your render farm away from you, I just want specs so we can have free drivers.

Yes, I am an idiot for wanting specs, I'm an extremist and I am evil, and it is completely understandable that righteous people are ridiculing my FPS count (on Quake2 engine!!! FFS!!!) and explaining how RMS just needed an editor, but I still want teh specs.

FPS and CUDA and VDPAU and SLI and all this stuff is all fine and dandy, but they are not specs. You can't talk about how great the VDPAU is when I'm talking about specs.

Nvidia is contributing to X. This is very nice. But we actually want specs. Intel released specs. Good Intel. AMD released specs. Good AMD. Nvidia hides specs. And then you hear about CUDA this and VDPAU that. Fine, good, people can use it. But what about specs? Bad Nvidia.

How difficult is this?

[pingufunkybeat]

So you're saying no one is questioning the legitimacy of the closed drivers?

You're not being specific.

[mugginz]

When kazetsukai said

As a user, I can greatly benefit from using Linux over Windows/OSX for -countless- reasons other than the simple fact that it is an open system. Your way of phrasing this suggests otherwise.

Start posting about function rather than pure philosophy, at least your extremist views will have a sliver of reason to them that way.

and you directly responded with

What you ignore is that many people run Linux BECAUSE of the philosophy, not because it's faster or cooler than Windows or OSX. People want a free operating system.

Do you feel that running Linux with a closed driver is against this philosophy. If not then surely you must agree then that there's no basis for people to suggest running Linux with a closed driver is illegitimate.

[mugginz]

further when you said

Why on Earth is this extremist? Nobody is stopping you from running closed source if you want to. Why do you insist on preventing "extremists" from running Free software? Look, there are dozens of totally closed operating systems with closed drivers and most of them are extremely functional and performant. Use them if you want, or use your binary drivers + Wine, or whatever solution you want.

Who was saying that the option of closed drivers is fine but the use of open ones were ilegitimate?

There were people arguing that the use of closed drivers on Linux was an OK thing to do. You say you agree with this but still want to argue about something.

On the other hand there were people casting aspersions on nVidia's blob. In other words saying it's not an OK driver.

[mugginz]

The core issue seems to be each person's belief that killing off the drivers they *don't* use would allow the drivers they *do* use to progress more quickly and make them more happy. There's obviously an element of truth to this, but once you look at the details...

- a lot of the work on open drivers is done by community developers outside AMD;
- a lot of the work on closed drivers is shared across multiple OSes and would have to be done even if we killed fglrx

... the benefit to the other driver would be relatively tiny.

But surely the closed driver users support both the open and closed drivers where as some of the open driver users feel that not only are they happy with the open drivers, but everyone else should also be satisfied with them as well.

One one hand you've got the "run whatever makes you feel good" guys and on the other hand you have "running closed drivers doesn't gel with the Linux mojo" people.

[bridgman]

But surely the closed driver users support both the open and closed drivers where as some of the open driver users feel that not only are they happy with the open drivers, but everyone else should also be satisfied with them as well.

One one hand you've got the "run whatever makes you feel good" guys and on the other hand you have "running closed drivers doesn't gel with the Linux mojo" people.

Nope, there were also complaints from closed driver users who were upset about what they perceived as a diversion of resources away from fglrx. The general concern was that fglrx had started to improve but they were worried those improvements would stop before the driver reached the level that they wanted to see.