AMD Introduces Ryzen 8000G Series & Even New Ryzen 5000 Series CPUs

[Quackdoc]

So you don't want to buy Nvidia because of their driver politics and also no AMD because of their driver politics but Intel is your savior? Have you already forgotten what they did with their ATOM GPUs? You can just wait 3 years and forget what AMD or NVIDIA did and buy their cards again.

what did they do to atom gpus? I have a chuwi hi10x, lenovo N22, Asus t100ta, I don't personally remeber intel selling any EOL'd devices as brand new. can you point to a skew?

[Anux]

While we're on underclocking/volting, can you do the same with nVME?

Not to my knowledge. You could put a good passive cooler on it or you may limit the PCIe generation of the slot to one gen older and therefore limit max read write performance. I'm running a gen 4 NVMe in a gen 3 slot and it stays save under 50 °C despite being in a bad vented place (motherboard backside) with no cooler.

The performance hit between gen 4 and 3 will not be noticeable if you're not constantly copying massive files from one NVMe to another on the same system. Most of the time everything else in your system will be the limiting factor.

[Anux]

what did they do to atom gpus? I have a chuwi hi10x, lenovo N22, Asus t100ta, I don't personally remeber intel selling any EOL'd devices as brand new. can you point to a skew?

https://www.change.org/p/intel-liste...vers-for-linux even under Windows the drivers where shit (and only 32 bit if I remember correct), but at first they released no drivers for linux then only closed source, 32 bit only, crap drivers that they never fixed.
Better having working EOL drivers then no or crappy closed source drivers that are somehow "supported". And do we need to speak about the driver fiasco for their new GPU line? Every second game outright didn't start and the rest run like shit. Now (2 years later?) we are at "most games start and some are running good".
AMD still giving value to their super old AM4 platform with not too much driver investment is still much better than intel 2 generation socket platforms with 2 gens basically being the same dies with 100 MHz difference relabeled and then you have to buy everything new.

[Quackdoc]

https://www.change.org/p/intel-liste...vers-for-linux even under Windows the drivers where shit (and only 32 bit if I remember correct), but at first they released no drivers for linux then only closed source, 32 bit only, crap drivers that they never fixed.
Better having working EOL drivers then no or crappy closed source drivers that are somehow "supported". And do we need to speak about the driver fiasco for their new GPU line? Every second game outright didn't start and the rest run like shit. Now (2 years later?) we are at "most games start and some are running good".
AMD still giving value to their super old AM4 platform with not too much driver investment is still much better than intel 2 generation socket platforms with 2 gens basically being the same dies with 100 MHz difference relabeled and then you have to buy everything new.

for the pvr gpu driver, yeah that sucks for linux users and yeah windows too, but this is no where near as bad as outright selling EOL'd devices as brand new, and then even advertising them to gamers. and as for their new GPU line, this is entirely a moot point, Intel came out from the gates saying that these devices were going to have bugs and that they were relying on early adopters to help file reports. There was no deception at all in either of these cases, yes the PVR drivers sucked. but they sucked all around and they weren't even Intel's drivers, they outsourced them, the change article even explicitly states that. as far as I know, intel never had any deception here.

This is based on the PowerVR SGX545 Core, made by Imagination Technologies.

The xe gpu's, yeah that sucked, but we already knew going into it they were going to be buggy, anyone who didn't know that is quite frankly, really kinda dumb, Intel explicitly stated on multiple platforms, including LTT that the cards were going to come, they were going to be broken, and that the people who were buying these cards were going to be buying them for the long game. no deception here either.

Compare this with what AMD is doing, AMD put these vega chips on life support. The statement provided to anandtech from AMD;

Going forward, AMD is providing critical updates for Polaris- and Vega-based products via a separate driver package, including important security and functionality updates as available.

This means that these devices are no longer getting support for non important security and functionality updates. Sketchy wording aside lets give AMD the benefit of the doubt and assume this means they will at least be getting driver updates for games that fix breaking functionality. To me, in no way does this even remotely imply they would be getting performance updates for these games, no longer getting updates for new d3d12/vk features that can potentially greatly influence performance so on and so forth.

and this is AMD's own words, with my own emphasis add on top;

THE POWERFUL ALL-IN-ONE GAMING PROCESSORS
----------------------------------------------
With 6 high-performance cores and Radeon^tm graphics built in, you have all the performance you need to get the job done

to me, this is a clear deception, for a device marked to gamers, these are devices that are unlikely to go the distance even for a year, let alone two to three years as one would expect their hardware to last for. As new vulkan extensions come out, which some games may or may not rely. This will not have all the performance needed. and if the functionality isn't "important" but games rely on it anyways, this will just be more things you just straight up cannot do with it.

to me, the things you quoted, are no where near as bad as this

[skeevy420]

the point is that they are releasing EOL'd GPUs, in their brand new APUs, marketed to gamers even though they won't get the game specific fixes, performance increases that come from updates etc. they werent even transparent about it on the marketing slides. I'm quite upset with AMD, I don't see myself selling AMD products any time soon again. I would honestly rather them just left them to rot, at least that way unsuspecting people won't get suckered into buying a brand new EOL'd device

It's a technical reason as to why. There aren't any RDNA or RDNA2 APUs on any AM4 platform. It's because there isn't enough room in the BIOS to add in the code for RDNA. We know that they ran out of room so they (AMD, MB manufacturers) have to do a lot of bullshit to get as many CPUs as possible to support AM4 like some motherboards having a firmware that'll remove old 1000/2000 Ryzens to add 3/4/5000 Ryzens or new AM4 boards being advertised as Gen 3 and up. Now you want them to go and remove more stuff so one single AM4 APU can have a graphics architecture that no other AM4 CPU will use which will have the ripple-effect of the motherboard makers having to update all their motherboards for a single Gen 5 APU with a different graphics architecture than all the other APUs to add yet another AM4 generational split: Gen 1-2; Gen 3-5; Gen 5 RDNA.

Or they can use up the last of their Vega stock and nobody has to do anything outside of the light maintenance of adding product IDs.

Your complaint about AMD here is literally why Intel is known for Tick-Tock releases with their sockets. We can either have one comprehensive socket with EOL and generational compromises or we can have a new socket every other year so we're forced to EOL our processor, maybe memory, that could have lasted another 3-8 years.

FWIW, I wouldn't call the 5600GT a "gaming processor" like AMD is implying, but it is good enough for retro and emulation, it'll do online multiplayer and modern PC games well enough for children and casual gamers, and it is a gaming processor the second that add in a worth-a-shit dGPU.

And you're wrong about the game-specific fixes...at least on Linux. AMDGPU-Pro defaults to Mesa and RADV. Those still support Vega and the Mesa/RADV devs will try to fix what they can, if they can. It's people using Windows or AMDGPU-Pro with AMDVLK that won't have support or game specific fixes.

[mihau]

the point is that they are releasing EOL'd GPUs, in their brand new APUs

I do not believe these are "brand new" APUs, in all likelihood they're different bins of the same Cezanne architecture we've seen already. Doing any new R&D for AM4 makes no sense at this point. They're just trying to utilize their existing production lines to the maximum, and that's good, the APUs are still good for the low end.

[Quackdoc]

It's a technical reason as to why. There aren't any RDNA or RDNA2 APUs on any AM4 platform. It's because there isn't enough room in the BIOS to add in the code for RDNA. We know that they ran out of room so they (AMD, MB manufacturers) have to do a lot of bullshit to get as many CPUs as possible to support AM4 like some motherboards having a firmware that'll remove old 1000/2000 Ryzens to add 3/4/5000 Ryzens or new AM4 boards being advertised as Gen 3 and up. Now you want them to go and remove more stuff so one single AM4 APU can have a graphics architecture that no other AM4 CPU will use which will have the ripple-effect of the motherboard makers having to update all their motherboards for a single Gen 5 APU with a different graphics architecture than all the other APUs to add yet another AM4 generational split: Gen 1-2; Gen 3-5; Gen 5 RDNA.

Or they can use up the last of their Vega stock and nobody has to do anything outside of the light maintenance of adding product IDs.

Your complaint about AMD here is literally why Intel is known for Tick-Tock releases with their sockets. We can either have one comprehensive socket with EOL and generational compromises or we can have a new socket every other year so we're forced to EOL our processor, maybe memory, that could have lasted another 3-8 years.

FWIW, I wouldn't call the 5600GT a "gaming processor" like AMD is implying, but it is good enough for retro and emulation, it'll do online multiplayer and modern PC games well enough for children and casual gamers, and it is a gaming processor the second that add in a worth-a-shit dGPU.

And you're wrong about the game-specific fixes...at least on Linux. AMDGPU-Pro defaults to Mesa and RADV. Those still support Vega and the Mesa/RADV devs will try to fix what they can, if they can. It's people using Windows or AMDGPU-Pro with AMDVLK that won't have support or game specific fixes.

I am aware that there are technical reasons behind why they are limited to vega.

RADV is a community project, multiple times it has been mentioned that at least officially, AMD works on amdvlk, not radv, and while I am thankful for radv existing, My thoughts are based on the merit of something being officially supported or not. Like I said, I really would have rather had them just not really just not really a new APU, but the least they could have done was have been open about it. The vega devices in general are actually not that bad when speaking specifically about raw perf of them, you can easily enjoy a 900p gaming session in a lot of modern games like cyberpunk, cod, etc. and 1080p games for ones that are lighter weight, you can even play on higher settings.

I under stand the technicals behind these devices, I think they will be quite well performing apus all in all, and if they were supported, I actually currently run a ryzen 2600 inside of a crosshair ROG VIII here wifi, that I would love to put one of these into. However I can not support selling EOL'd devices as brand new with deceptive marketing like this. I understand perfectly well that this is a non-issue for me on linux, I cannot emphasize this is not an issue with the technical aspect of things for me personally. I will not buy them, because other people will get boned from this, and I cannot support this behavior. When you buy a new product, you, IMO rightfully expect a degree of support that these devices will not get. this is the issue I have with this.

[Quackdoc]

I do not believe these are "brand new" APUs, in all likelihood they're different bins of the same Cezanne architecture we've seen already. Doing any new R&D for AM4 makes no sense at this point. They're just trying to utilize their existing production lines to the maximum, and that's good, the APUs are still good for the low end.

this is explicitly my issue. these are brand new in the sense that this is an entirely new product releasing, and their doing it by re-releasing EOL'd devices as something brand new, if AMD were to turn around. backtrack and come out and state that these will be given full proper support again for the lifetime of the product and treat it as a brand new product (because it is even if the tech in it isn't), I would not retract everything I have said, I would still be angry, but at the very least, I wouldn't boycott them.

[Anux]

There was no deception at all in either of these cases, yes the PVR drivers sucked. but they sucked all around and they weren't even Intel's drivers, they outsourced them

So if AMD just outsourced the vega drivers to someone that never supply's even "important security and functionality updates" you would be happy buying AMD products? I don't understand your reasoning, you are applying double standards here.

Intel sold those ATOM chips and therefore is responsible for supplying drivers, just saying we're not responsible and leaving your customers with unusable hardware is really much worse than having at least basic support.

Those "new" 5000 chips are not really new chips they are just old stock that they probably couldn't sell to notebook manufacturers but weren't good enough to fit in the 5700G sampling. Whatever works with the old 5700G will still work with the "new" 5000GT versions. And of course under Linux you will have full support.
I'm playing Baldurs Gate 3 on the 5700G (sure not great with hardly 30 fps and occasional stutters but that's what you opt for with iGPUs).

[Quackdoc]

So if AMD just outsourced the vega drivers to someone that never supply's even "important security and functionality updates" you would be happy buying AMD products? I don't understand your reasoning, you are applying double standards here.

Intel sold those ATOM chips and therefore is responsible for supplying drivers, just saying we're not responsible and leaving your customers with unusable hardware is really much worse than having at least basic support.

As I said, It still sucks that intel failed to sufficiently provide support for these devices, but it is still marginally better then what AMD did back when they deprecated vega when they had devices less then a year old. What I did say that it would be significantly better then what AMD is doing now. NOT GOOD, BETTER. Just because you sprayed perfume on a shit doesn't make the shit not shit, but I would still rather be in the room with the shit and perfume.

Those "new" 5000 chips are not really new chips they are just old stock that they probably couldn't sell to notebook manufacturers but weren't good enough to fit in the 5700G sampling. Whatever works with the old 5700G will still work with the "new" 5000GT versions. And of course under Linux you will have full support.
I'm playing Baldurs Gate 3 on the 5700G (sure not great with hardly 30 fps and occasional stutters but that's what you opt for with iGPUs).

Again, this is explicitly my issue with them. im not sure why this is hard to understand. I have already said this is the case multiple times. Yes, These cpus perform good, In fact, as I said two comments up, if they were actually supported, I would be buying one myself.