Rust 1.36 Brings Offline Support In Cargo, Stable Alloc Crate

[johanb]

lol, and rustup does what? install binary packages? This wired dude compiles it from source, like one does on an OpenSource system. Yeah, in 2019 people do not even know what compiling open source actually means anymore. Maybe you should try it yourself to understand why some people critic Rust for it's hilarious compile-from-source bootstrap issues.

Yes it does, do you seriously also compile GCC and CLANG every time they release a new version?

Why would I want to compile it from source when they have reproducible builds unless I would want to make modifications to the compiler?
If your reason is because you want to compile it with -O3 and arch tuning you are wasting your time since it won't increase the speed of the compiler with more than a few percent.

I've compiled GCC from source a few times because I wanted to make slight modifications to it and it took more than an hour to compile, why would I want to do that without any good reason to?

[moltonel]

No you can not. Once again Rust zealots advertising their toy so avidly do not even know what they are talking about. "Mysterious reason" seriously? People have to use it because it is tightly coupled and forced without alternatives. Mystery solved.

Please stop calling every supporter a zealot, and calling calling a large ecosystem employing many professionals for years and releasing large-scale critical software to production in multiple domains a toy.

The term "mystery" was ironic, I know full well that not using cargo would be a pain. Pretty much the same pain as using a Makefile, I guess. Run cargo in verbose mode to see the rustc commands that it runs for you. There's no magic, it's the same basic actions as for a C++ program, it's just more standardized so you can automate more things.

But you missed the important keyword: *wish*. Pretty much nobody wants to use anything else, because cargo does a very good, seamless job. If rust users weren't happy with cargo, they'd come up with a different tool or improve cargo. The only real usecase I know about is pre-existing complex build systems that suddenly have to integrate rust on top of everything else. Systems using meson or ant for example. And cargo is getting improved to integrate seamlessly in these system.

This mantra appears in any Rust topic. Fancy any real world example?

I'm developing for armv7 with up to 64Mb or ram, so not exactly a microcontroler, but one place to start looking might be https://rust-embedded.github.io/blog/ for real-world products. https://forge.rust-lang.org/platform-support.html only lists a handful of 16bit microcontrolers, and no 8bit that I can see. I'm guessing that has more to do with modern hardware being mostly 32bit than with what rust can do. I expect if you have 8bit hardware you want to use assembler anyway, not C.

Embedded is an important target for rust, and the language regularly gets updates aimed specifically at embedded. For example the 1.36 release has extracted functions that require a memory allocator out of the standard library, so you can more easily use that if you have no OS but do have heap memory. Previous releases already worked on making the "no OS" usecase working on stable rust, but this is now even more granular.

[rene]

Yes it does, do you seriously also compile GCC and CLANG every time they release a new version?

Why would I want to compile it from source when they have reproducible builds unless I would want to make modifications to the compiler?
If your reason is because you want to compile it with -O3 and arch tuning you are wasting your time since it won't increase the speed of the compiler with more than a few percent.

I've compiled GCC from source a few times because I wanted to make slight modifications to it and it took more than an hour to compile, why would I want to do that without any good reason to?

yes, I compile everything from source as I run my own Linux distribution. What is the problem with that? What is the point of open source if people are not encouraged to take a look and compile it? And the efforts of all this huge complexity are needed for just a small component of Firefox each time they force me to update it and go thru this nightmare again.

[Luke_Wolf]

"lightest"? When the bootstrap takes like an hour to bootstrap rust & cargo on a core-i7 laptop? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Me3n1p0KN9o

Are you seriously back for more? Didn't you get your ass handed to you enough in the last thread you played this idiocy in? Since you clearly lack reading comprehension or any understanding of anything, I'll make this real short for you. The amount of time it takes something to compile is dependent on the size of the codebase. Little code: Little Time. Big Code: Long Time. The LLVM + Rust + Cargo Package is Super Big Humungo size Code and so it takes a long time, and you have to be patient. All similar software takes same time.

Or like a normal intellectually functional person who is developing on Rust you could just download a script that will download official binaries for you, these take almost no time.

[skeevy420]

This is pretty rare today. Even satellite Internet services are offering unlimited data plans, or reduced speeds (1-3Mbps) after exceeding a bandwidth cap. Crate sources are rarely more than a handful of kilobytes, so Cargo's network usage isn't what you should be concerned about. You can even reduce network usage by using `rustup doc` instead of visiting the Rust website for documentation, or running `cargo doc` and opening the generated crate documentation instead of visiting `docs.rs`.

That said, open source software development is always fairly heavy on the network usage once you start interacting with large projects with a lot of history in their versioning control, or depending on a lot of compiled shared dependencies. Things are much worse for C development.

Big city America isn't the same as small town America in regards to what is available. That place I used to live at where I had to drive to sync the Debian repos still doesn't have broadband available that isn't some form of wireless. It wasn't until this year that satellite was a realistically priced option and last year when an antenna-based wireless internet service became available. A few miles past that most cellular providers drop to 3G at best (Verizon and AT&T are the preferred options), the antenna-based isn't an option, so it's just satellite or dial-up for actual residential and commercial options.

South of the American border isn't any better. Some of the poorer parts of Europe are just as bad. Same thing in regards to poorer parts of SE Asia and Asia that isn't industrialized China, Russia, etc. A lot of the African continent doesn't have good coverage. Viewing things from a well-to-do, first world perspective just ignores how people in rural first world and less industrialized rest of the world live and the challenges that they have to deal with.

For that matter, it's also a factor to consider in regards to space exploration. Ping-time is a motherfucker on Ganymede.

I'm well aware that isn't the biggest of considerations for most people (which, consequently, is why they have shitty internet options), but lack-of-internet and local hosting needs to be something that languages, frameworks, distributions, etc need to consider to both be more widely accessible for the third world, the rural, locked-down businesses, military, space, and more.

[rene]

Are you seriously back for more? Didn't you get your ass handed to you enough in the last thread you played this idiocy in? Since you clearly lack reading comprehension or any understanding of anything, I'll make this real short for you. The amount of time it takes something to compile is dependent on the size of the codebase. Little code: Little Time. Big Code: Long Time. The LLVM + Rust + Cargo Package is Super Big Humungo size Code and so it takes a long time, and you have to be patient. All similar software takes same time.

Or like a normal intellectually functional person who is developing on Rust you could just download a script that will download official binaries for you, these take almost no time.

Wow, how far can we sink in the open source world? What kind of wording do you even resort to while communicating to other people? Is that Linus Torvalds' language school?Bullying other people does not make your sentence any more valid. Also other people tell me here it is lightweight and now you tell me Rust + Cargo are super big Humungo (humongous?) size Code? All those arguments add up pretty well. Pro tip: if you want others to take you seriously, express yourself a little more eloquently.

[Luke_Wolf]

Big city America isn't the same as small town America in regards to what is available. That place I used to live at where I had to drive to sync the Debian repos still doesn't have broadband available that isn't some form of wireless. It wasn't until this year that satellite was a realistically priced option and last year when an antenna-based wireless internet service became available. A few miles past that most cellular providers drop to 3G at best (Verizon and AT&T are the preferred options), the antenna-based isn't an option, so it's just satellite or dial-up for actual residential and commercial options.

South of the American border isn't any better. Some of the poorer parts of Europe are just as bad. Same thing in regards to poorer parts of SE Asia and Asia that isn't industrialized China, Russia, etc. A lot of the African continent doesn't have good coverage. Viewing things from a well-to-do, first world perspective just ignores how people in rural first world and less industrialized rest of the world live and the challenges that they have to deal with.

For that matter, it's also a factor to consider in regards to space exploration. Ping-time is a motherfucker on Ganymede.

I'm well aware that isn't the biggest of considerations for most people (which, consequently, is why they have shitty internet options), but lack-of-internet and local hosting needs to be something that languages, frameworks, distributions, etc need to consider to both be more widely accessible for the third world, the rural, locked-down businesses, military, space, and more.

So... There's ways around it https://doc.rust-lang.org/cargo/refe...endencies.html you can't clone the files behind crates.io but you're no worse off than developing a program from scratch with C++ that has external dependencies. What you want to do would involve cloning the repos that interest you and bringing them back home, and then modifying your Cargo.toml to use the local repo. It sucks of course but... short of them allowing you to clone the underlying files for crates.io (which they may not be legally allowed to do because I'm not seeing anything policy wise that disallows proprietary software being distributed on crates.io although I've not seen such a crate on there) you can't create a true mirror of the site rather than just mirroring the index, which has a lot less to do with the language than just the site in particular.

[skeevy420]

So... There's ways around it https://doc.rust-lang.org/cargo/refe...endencies.html you can't clone the files behind crates.io but you're no worse off than developing a program from scratch with C++ that has external dependencies. What you want to do would involve cloning the repos that interest you and bringing them back home, and then modifying your Cargo.toml to use the local repo. It sucks of course but... short of them allowing you to clone the underlying files for crates.io (which they may not be legally allowed to do because I'm not seeing anything policy wise that disallows proprietary software being distributed on crates.io although I've not seen such a crate on there) you can't create a true mirror of the site rather than just mirroring the index, which has a lot less to do with the language than just the site in particular.

There are a few different projects that actually are designed to clone crates.io and keep it updated, just nothing official or very easy to use yet. Saying we can't isn't true, it's just not easy to do.

With the unofficial ways it's not hard to overload crates.io and/or abuse their scraper/crawler policy (something I've done and was blocked from using crates.io until I got in contact with them). I say yet because this is something that they're working on and discussing in various Rust-related github issues.

From what I've read, it's around 30GBs or so to clone all of it.

[Luke_Wolf]

Wow, how far can we sink in the open source world? What kind of wording do you even resort to while communicating to other people? Is that Linus Torvalds' language school?Bullying other people does not make your sentence any more valid. Also other people tell me here it is lightweight and now you tell me Rust + Cargo are super big Humungo (humongous?) size Code? All those arguments add up pretty well. Pro tip: if you want others to take you seriously, express yourself a little more eloquently.

So you don't understand things even when they're explained to you like you're 5. Congratulations. In the previous thread we spent plenty of time on explaining things to you in depth, but you're so retarded that you didn't understand any of it so you're back here again with your same stupid bullshit. Congrats again on marking a new low on the IQ scale.

When you can grasp basic facts like: "compilers are in the MLOC order of complexity" maybe you might begin to be worth humouring again.

[skeevy420]

Threads that head this south make me understand where coc-suckers are coming from.

Or.

Look. The Nightman is paying his troll toll to get into that boy's hole.

I'm torn between serious and stupid so y'all get both.