Rust 1.36 Brings Offline Support In Cargo, Stable Alloc Crate

[moltonel]

"lightest"? When the bootstrap takes like an hour to bootstrap rust & cargo on a core-i7 laptop? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Me3n1p0KN9o

On my gentoo i7-9750H it takes ~44min for gcc and 52min for llvm+rust/cargo, that's really not much of a difference. Installed package sizes are 652M (gcc) vs 388M (llvm 81 + rust 307), so rust wins. If going for a gcc-free system, clang compiles in 43min and takes 82mb.

[jjkk]

A Cargo crate is the virtual equivalent of a C header + associated C files -- the C version of a "microdependency". The game-changer is that Cargo allows you to publish your crate to a public repository, to share it in a massively-distributed manner.

How on Earth is this a feature of a language? There are countless ways to do this. When unnecessary toy language forces such idiotic workflow expect nothing but rage from sane people.

[moltonel]

I'd say the opposite, you can appreciate Rust more, if you are experienced in C++ and know its problems that just can never be fixed. At some point, C++'s overall complexity and inherent downsides are just becoming annoying enough, that if there is an option of a better language, you would use it.

One of the worries in Rust community was actually the issue of Rust becoming more and more complex.

The best language to write a program in is pretty much always the one you're already proficient with.

That said, it's certainly worth it to invest the time to become proficient with Rust. The learning curve is very different from C++, it'll take you much longer to be productive but it'll take you much less time to be "safe" than with C++. Neither C++ nor Rust should be your first language, unless you have really good learning conditions.

[jjkk]

Wow, you can't compile cargo. The horror... And you totally need to because nobody has compiled that for you. Oh, wait.
Also, you say i7, but which i7 is that?

Someone *has* to do that in order that pile of garbage to appear in your distro repository. But with such attitude do not expect Rust to become popular. IMO Rust was made with sole purpose to turn Firefox more closed and unmaintainable by sane people. As a standalone tool it is inviable and incapable.

[rene]

On my gentoo i7-9750H it takes ~44min for gcc and 52min for llvm+rust/cargo, that's really not much of a difference. Installed package sizes are 652M (gcc) vs 388M (llvm 81 + rust 307), so rust wins. If going for a gcc-free system, clang compiles in 43min and takes 82mb.

gcc usually also builds more compilers, c, c++, go, fortran, ada, objective-c. Just don't call Rust slim or something like that ;-)

[rene]

Takes me 3 minutes to run "rustup update" on my R5 1700 and 4 minutes on my broadwell i5 laptop, I don't know what that dude does but he's definitely doing something weird.

lol, and rustup does what? install binary packages? This wired dude compiles it from source, like one does on an OpenSource system. Yeah, in 2019 people do not even know what compiling open source actually means anymore. Maybe you should try it yourself to understand why some people critic Rust for it's hilarious compile-from-source bootstrap issues.

[rene]

Yeah, the compiled output can be pretty light depending on how you write the code and compiler settings. AFAIK, it's one of the lightest WASM options since no GC is required by it?

It can run on microcontrollers which have extremely small storage and memory capacity and very weak processing speed compared to desktops. Many languages are unable to do that.

Never had much problem running C or C++ on microcontrollers. How "light" is Rust, can it run in 8-bit AVRs?

[moltonel]

How on Earth is this a feature of a language? There are countless ways to do this. When unnecessary toy language forces such idiotic workflow expect nothing but rage from sane people.

This is a feature of the ecosystem, not the language. You can ignore cargo and use rustc like you use cc if you wish, but for some mysterious reason nobody seems to actually wish that. The feature exists because people want it, because it makes them much more productive, because they don't want to reinvent the wheel, because C++-style dependency workflows are headache-inducing, because language features make such a system more viable than in other languages.

In case you haven't noticed, most modern languages have that kind of global library repo. C/C++ are the odd ones out. You could say that most the world has gone idiotic and insane, or you could say that the raging minority is missing out on a useful ecosystem feature.

Many languages tacked on dependency handling as an afterthought, but Rust got it very early on and it influenced the language; features like "multiple dep versions in one crate" and "trait-based composability" make the distribution system even more useful.

[moltonel]

But with such attitude do not expect Rust to become popular. IMO Rust was made with sole purpose to turn Firefox more closed and unmaintainable by sane people. As a standalone tool it is inviable and incapable.

Trolling, or actually clueless ? I'll take the bait and get back to work.

Rust *is* popular, it's actually ranked "best-loved language" in stackoverflow for many years in a row, is climbing the ranks in actual usage, and has gone way beyond Mozilla's usecases. Rust is actually a much more open language that C++, measured in how easy it is to contribute and influence the design. A rust codebase is much more maintainable than a C++ codebase (that my sound subjective to you, but I assure you there's no contest). Firefox greatly benefited from Rust, by enabling algorithms that had failed multiple times in C++ and by making the codebase more approachable and maintainable.

[jjkk]

This is a feature of the ecosystem, not the language. You can ignore cargo and use rustc like you use cc if you wish, but for some mysterious reason nobody seems to actually wish that.

No you can not. Once again Rust zealots advertising their toy so avidly do not even know what they are talking about. "Mysterious reason" seriously? People have to use it because it is tightly coupled and forced without alternatives. Mystery solved.

It can run on microcontrollers which have extremely small storage and memory capacity and very weak processing speed compared to desktops. Many languages are unable to do that.

This mantra appears in any Rust topic. Fancy any real world example?