Many Linux Developers Are Ecstatic Over Fedora On Lenovo Systems

[CochainComplex]

• Personally I don't really like the "upgrade your whole system to a new release every X months" Linux model (that's why I've been using a rolling distro since forever) but updating Fedora via a GUI tool, as the others have mentioned, is really easily done nowadays with the Gnome Software Center.
• You mean how Windows updates can sometimes render the system unbootable or leave it with severe problems? Yeah, it's relatively rare, but it happens. Also, I'll be damned if you can find me even one average Joe (i.e. "most people out there") who can readily fix a Windows system by booting into a safe environment and going through the recovery process all by themselves, without asking for help from a more experienced person or sending their PC to a repair center.
• Do you mean that secure boot makes Linux systems unable to use VMs? Is this a limitation of Linux only? Or a limitation of secure boot? Is it something that concerns the average Joe?
• You mean how Windows 10 makes people uncomfortable by being a total mess when it comes to its UI, because even 5 years after the initial release its developers are still not finished with drastically changing it, and they still have one half of the system using the new UI and the other half using the old UI? Or maybe you mean how Windows 8 wasn't a drastic redesign of the Windows UI paradigm, like the Gnome 3 one was?
• That's the #1 "limitation" of Linux as an OS and it's been known since ages, but it has nothing to do with Linux itself but rather with the companies producing said software and games. And indeed, despite this "limitation", nowadays Linux is much more capable of satisfying the needs of the average Joe when it comes to software and games (what with Steam, Proton, Vulkan, Krita, Reaper & Bitwig for pro audio, et al) than it has ever been historically, even a scant few years ago. It's even managed to carve a niche for itself in some areas (e.g. with Blender, which is fast becoming the go-to tool in the 3D industry). And with cloud gaming and the 5th generation of consoles on the horizon, things are looking rather good on this front.

IMHO, what really matters is that we make sure Linux is rock solid and that it only breaks as often as or hopefully even less often than Windows 10, which currently serves as the golden standard of what is accepted as "part of life" and what is not in the mind of the average Joe. If we can make sure that Linux is not perceived as being more broken than Windows (key word is "perceived") then we're set for success. But guess what: we're mostly already there.

As for the available tools to fix a broken system, they do not matter as long as they can do their job, and even then they only matter to the technical people who will be performing the repairs, and any repair guy worth their salt will tell you that Linux is miles ahead with its CLI tools than Windows with its "graphical way". Even giving an average Joe instructions is much easier on Linux (open terminal, type sequence of commands, press Enter) than on Windows (click this, click that, click that other one while pressing Shift to run with admin privileges, click here, click there, click Next, restart, restart again, etc etc ad nauseam).

True.

From my experience of repairing Computers for friends and family. The average joe needs much less then the Linux Enthusiasts might expect. Thats why a lot of average Joes only have phones/tablets nowadays btw.

But average Joe 40+ y mostly needs Internet Explorer, maybe Outlook and Word (Excel) + Printer/Scanner Support. The average Linux can easily substitute the first ones and Printer. Scanning is still not very average Joe friendly. And a lot of email stuff can be managed by Webinterfaces.

Average Joe <=40y needs the already mentioned stuff plus Steam/Uplay/Origin/Epic. Steam runs very very nice under Linux and with Lutris you can easily (Linux Enthusiasts POV) make Ubisofts AAA runable - I dont have Origin or Epic so I dont know how they are usable in wine.

This is just private/home usage. If your company is "supported/cucked" by Microsoft you will mostly not have the possibility to choose any Linux device unless you are Developer and then you are not the average Joe.

So the real average Joe should be satisfied with Linux Status Quo. There are some quirks but not in the technical depth more surface userfriendlienes.
When we are touching topics like secure boot or virtualisation etc. we are already been way out of the average Joe territory.
Most average Joes dont even know what virtualisation means...If they know they might need it and therefore they are not average Joe by definition again.

A lot of average Joes are simply scared of switiching because they already have difficulties to use their win equipment. They don't know any other OS (Computers) and switching might mean they have to learn it all over again - thats what they fear.

[CochainComplex]

This is just obvious thing. On Linux things just works out of the box most of the time. On Windows it's sometimes a nightmare to make them working properly.

best example might be the rough launch of 5700XT considering the drivers. On Linux they have been more stable way earlier.

Besides if you change your hardware it wants a reactivation again. And it first tries to fool you that your key is not valid. I'm sure this will make people buy a knew license.

One more. Recently my father bought a knew PC with Win 10. We couldnt find his existing Office License on his MS account. The office installer (even logged into his MS account) was not able to find the Lic by itself. And the Account overview makes it really hard to find the Lic Key. We believed that we need a new Office Lic. This is just fraud.

I have some very small Win 10 installation which I'm using for 1 or 2 games which do not run properly under Wine/Proton. But after this reactivation desaster I have decided to get rid of it completely. It is spyware and ransomware. Stay away.

[CochainComplex]

none is fighting for that currently. It's just birdie posting bullshit about Linux and people bashing him.

yes because he does not even use proper arguments. He is literally the already drunken guy which joins a bar and is annoying everyone there until the point where guests are leaving or yelling at him. .

[Alexmitter]

You are right - you need something with Void Linux pre-installed or antiX, so you can avoid all that systemd bloat.

Imagine unironically hateing systemd

[lejeczek]

I doubt Lenovo will do anything serious about Linux. I see them as Dell – hoping, by empty declaration, to dupe us all into buying their hardware.
Look, I have two Lenovo laptops: E14 Gen 2(20T6S00W00) and E495(20KUS01U00), both are AMD… and not a single piece of firmware is available in/via LVFS.
This same goes for Lenovo ThinkServers – no LVFS, no serious Linux support.
So as of today my verdict is – unless you cannot live without trackpoint, then go for some less known but Linux dedicated brands.

[hughsie]

I doubt Lenovo will do anything serious about Linux.

I've been working with dozens of Lenovo ODMs for months.

This same goes for Lenovo ThinkServers – no LVFS,

There are a few ThinkStation machines on the LVFS with firmware updates now. I can assure you, Lenovo are working really hard under the surface getting everything they can on the LVFS within the normal business pressures of being a large OEM.

[RahulSundaram]

I didn't know that. Thank you. But then last time I used Gnome was in 2000.

So, you have 20 years of experience with Linux and the last time you used GNOME was 20 years ago and you were making assertions about something you have never really used? If you wish to comment on something, perhaps it may make better sense to get some good experience with it first. A lot can change in 20 years as you are likely aware of

[starshipeleven]

So, you have 20 years of experience with Linux and the last time you used GNOME was 20 years ago and you were making assertions about something you have never really used?

Yeah, sounds exactly like birdie the sad troll

[starshipeleven]

Imagine unironically hateing systemd

how something like that is even possible.

[Black_Fox]

I doubt Lenovo will do anything serious about Linux. (…) and not a single piece of firmware is available in/via LVFS.

I recently got something like 4 updates for my work T495 via LVFS, the firmware is there, just not for that many models (yet).