X.Org vs. Wayland Linux Gaming Performance For NVIDIA GeForce + AMD Radeon In Early 2023

[ElectricPrism]

it is very easy to detect what microsoft does to linux just watch what ubuntu does...

flatpak vs snap ... microsoft plays divide and conquer...

fedora works best on AMD GPUs thats why they did go the wayland route first

and ubuntu works with nvidia gpus best thats why they did stay on x11/x.org for so long.

in the past microsoft used its ubuntu pupped to play the mir vs wayland card...

microsoft does sapotage the opensource world for many many years even 25 years ago with openGL microsoft was in the kronos group to sapotage the standard later the evil empire of microsoft used nvidia to sapotage the openGL standard with NvidiaGL and opengl slang apps and games who only run correctly on nvidia hardware.

Plausible, there is sufficient motive. But I'm not worried. Also Ubuntu being pro Nvidia & Xorg -- holy dog shit -- from a desktop user point of view in 2010 - 2013 when I used Ubuntu Xorg + Nvidia was LITERALLY the WORST thing about LINUX. Every time Ubuntu would ship a update it would break Xorg and dump my machines to TTY or some kind of LightDM Nvidia seizure where I couldn't access TTY. From my point of view that was part of the whole reason WHY Wayland happened not long after.

I would like to see how you incorporate Nancy Pelosi and her ownership of Nvidia stock and visit to Taiwan into this concept :P.

The Microsoft sabotage of OpenGL was a great read back in the day (I think it written about on a 00s blog)

I can't seem to find it because the Search Engine have gone to ABSOLUTE DOG SHIT the past few years -- it would appear someone wants to prioritize "authoritative sources" -- big corporation websites above relevant results. And that's not a joke. Google is nearly useless, and probably on purpose in the same way every app tries to "keep you on it" as long as possible to maximize profits.

[Draget]

Thank you Michael for this benchmark! Seems like you uncovered some juice potential for optimizations there! Let's hope the 'right' people see it.

[Myownfriend]

I don't know if there is a future for X, there definitely is, because you have to do something with thousands of Xorg applications, but there is definitely no future for Wayland on the desktop.

Dumb take.

[deusexmachina]

I've had zero interest in investing in Wayland. Required reading imo: https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9f...5e3a9f2d1f2277

[deusexmachina]

I also can't see a single reason to ever go with Ubuntu or RedHat. Debian, Mint, Arch, and some other distros do everything better - depending upon your needs.

[abu_shawarib]

NVidia on Wayland actually feels a lot snappier than on X11.

My experience is the opposite.

[dfyt]

OptiX is practically everywhere, Nvidia has Tensor cores. While AMD finally added their AI accelerators to their consumer cards in the RX 7000 series. Only reason to use AMD GPUs is for gaming currently while everything else will be quicker on Nvidia GPUs and have been since 2018 thanks to Turing. For these task the best bang for the buck of a users hard earned money is Nvidia.

I have my pick of GPU's whether it be NV or AMD. I won't touch NV on Linux or Windows for most the part - main reason? My pc becomes very sluggish with > 1 monitor if I'm doing heavy workloads. NV doesn't appear to multitask very well. EG I can game on Windows or Linux while rendering a video in Davinci (with SW encoding - HW encode quality sucks) and I will barely even notice the pc is busy. With an NV card just moving my mouse and switching between destkops / activities is sluggish when doing stuff in the background. Just dragging windows between two screens skips frames without load.

So I don't really care if NV is double the speed if it means I can't use my pc - nicely - while it chugs away. I tested this with NV 1050/60/2080/3080ti all vs AMD 5450/RX580/5700XT so it's not a "you need a more powerful gpu" argument it appears to be architecture. The 5450 gave a smoother experience than the 3080 in desktop use esp with multi mons. FWIW I sell way more NV's than AMD but sadly FPS sells cards not overall experience. Thats why I feel this Xorg vs Wayland benchmark is a bit pointless in the real world.

In the same way ppl keep talking about how Wayland is "smoother" that's the same experience I get with an AMD gpu. I couldn't care less if Xorg got 200fps and Wayland 100fps. It feels way better for gaming, though I do sign out of X11 after work and use Wayland for gaming as Wayland doesn't support all my apps. Where I do miss NV is for it's AI in Davinci.

[Estranged1906]

What's the point of Wayland? Like GNOME, it seems to be something that nobody truly wants or needs or likes, and which is even worse than its forerunner (X.Org / KDE) in many ways. But IBM keeps pushing with an iron will...

[Monsterovich]

The Microsoft sabotage of OpenGL was a great read back in the day (I think it written about on a 00s blog)

What? Source?

[Berniyh]

What's the point of Wayland? Like GNOME, it seems to be something that nobody truly wants or needs or likes, and which is even worse than its forerunner (X.Org / KDE) in many ways. But IBM keeps pushing with an iron will...

Basically Wayland is needed, because you can't break X11 specs. Everything else is a design decision (and of course one can debate on whether these decisions were good or not). They could've called it X12, but that wouldn't really have made a difference.
For details (also on why there is a desire to break with X11) see Daniel Stone's famous talk here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIctzAQOe44