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Steam On Linux Still Tap Dancing Around 0.9% Marketshare

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  • #81
    Everyone I know who uses Linux, uses steam in VM, there's no benefit to native vs BareMetal VM, native is just more vulnerabilities, less easy backup more annoyances.
    Also most who use Linux are more privacy oriented and are more likely to disable the hardware survey.


    • #82
      Originally posted by theriddick View Post

      Well this is a Linux forum. But I get what you mean, it doesn't JUST WORK all the time, I mean some things CAN just work but there are plenty of cases where it doesn't thats for sure. Also the troubleshooting steps are radically different to windows thus are a massive learning curve for many people, I get it.

      Still, MS is harvesting the shit out of peoples data on windows10 and soon 11, its just annoying they expect people to PAY for that platform after all the telemetry and advertising nonsense that has been going on, and growing.

      Unfortunately I still must boot to windows10 if I want to play RUST/SCUM or TARKOV; and getting SQUAD+Mortal2Online working was no easy feat(under Linux).
      Now for how many people you think thats really a big problem that they need to switch to Linux? If they were really cautious you wouldn't have seen the huge marketshare of windows on the desktop. If people want linux to succeed, they'll have to put their dollars to work. Not just expect other people to work for free. Most of the development work in linux is done by groups with interests mostly on the server side and mobile too, cause thats their bottom line.


      • #83
        Originally posted by swoorup View Post

        Now for how many people you think thats really a big problem that they need to switch to Linux? If they were really cautious you wouldn't have seen the huge marketshare of windows on the desktop.
        In my circle of gaming pals, everybody uses Windows but they are all on the fence ready to switch with enough reassurance that everything will keep working. They will get it once Proton matures, even though right now there's no rush.

        They use tools to "neuter" Windows' telemetry and such. These tools apparently modify or delete core Windows files that have the potential to respawn at each update. So I know for a fact that my friends have to run these tools over and over, while also keeping up to date with the tools themselves, because they get smarter at each new thing Windows *forcibly* introduces.
        Such headache, so much time wasted. They hate it!

        Truth is: Windows does not offer anything particularly good or noteworthy. It's game developers that offer support for Windows as a platform, a.k.a. Windows is a game bootloader, it's not something people stick to because they love it or anything like that. This means that when a game is programmed so that it doesn't rely on patented technology such as Media Foundation, it already has the potential to work 100% on day 1 in Proton, with less headaches. This is bound to improve up to the point that Proton is a better "game bootloader" layer than Windows itself. Why crap on it while it's work in progress? If anything, it has shown it's on the right path to succeed.

        This is not being voluntarily myopic about what Linux lacks as a platform still, as you seem to imply in post 81, but rather realistic about what Linux is already doing better. Let some Linux users gloat in their comfort, so what? Windows astroturfers are way more insufferable, I would say. (Not implying you are one.)



        • #84
          Linux doesn't just works and I hope it never does so they don't start the Windowsfication of everything. Rounded corners and smooth brains. A good market share that validates the market for native software and investments is enough.

          I hope the Linux platform that gets popular is a fully FLOSS but completely locked down experience with vetted hardware, but still sharing the same building blocks behind the scenes. But certainly not Google-shit ChromeOS spyware central. That way they can't press the wrong buttons and just shut the hell up, and stay out of this endless stupid conversation. If they want to learn more though they can always graduate to a proper desktop like a grown-up. I don't know what I hate more, the "linux just works install MY DISTRO but NOT THAT DISTRO" or windows trolls happy that they are getting grass graped by their NSA overlords.


          • #85
            Originally posted by avem View Post
            And what about NVIDIA/AMD Drivers Control Panels 95% of whose features are not available under Linux?
            What about undervolting/fan curves/power limiting under Linux out of the box? Without using weird repos from github with software no one can vouch for?
            What about anticheat solutions? Do they work under Linux?
            What about RTX/DLSS support? OK, the latter is proprietary but the former is a standard and implemented in Vulkan as well.
            What about proper OSD monitoring? Yeah, mongohud exists, what about configuring it using UI without editing and debugging god knows what text files? Oh, and mongohud doesn't always work, sometimes it's mangohud app, sometimes it's MANGOHUD=1 vkcube, sometimes it's MANGOHUD_DLSYM=1 mangohud glxgears.
            * I'd be curious to know what features are missing out of the Nvidia Driver Control Panel for Linux under X11?
            * You mean like MSI Afterburner alternatives like Green with Envy and CoreCtrl?
            * Almost all user-space anti-cheat solutions work on Linux, such as Warden and VAC. EAC and BattlEye work for native games but the obvious issue is they don't work in Proton.
            * I'm sure if you've read Phoronix that there is both native and limited Proton support for RTX and DLSS for Vulkan applications. DirectX based Linux DLSS is coming in the Fall. AMD FidelityFX Super Resolution is already supported native and in Proton.
            * The GOverlay GUI is the exclusive way I configure Mangohud--the latest version even supports the new HUD features of Mangohud. It is also for configuring vkBasault (ReShade post processing equivalent for Linux) and Replay Sorcery (ReLive/ShadowPlay equivalent for Linux)


            • #86
              Originally posted by swoorup View Post
              Oh the amount of linux fanboyism and it just works mentality here is annoying. Linux requires lot of work for the end users. Just cause your system worked at an instant, doesn't mean every one has the same experience. Windows has the resources allocated for testers to test on wide variety of permutations of hardware, whereas for linux most of the desktop experience testing is up to the end user.
              The luck whether linux depends a lot on whether you buy supported hardware or not. There are still some manufacturers where Linux drivers are second or third priority but they are getting fewer quickly.
              Still, buying systems with linux preinstalled usually gets you a great experience independent of distribution that you install later.

              Regarding testing, it is up to you if you want to participate. You can either opt out and install stable distributions like Debian stable, RedHat, CentOS, or Ubuntu LTS. You now even get the latest software using flatpak.
              On the other hand, you are volunteering for some testing if you install development/testing distros like Fedora, Debian testing, Ubuntu short term releases, Arch etc.
              MS also has the developers program. You can now opt in to Win 11. I don't see the difference?

              Side-note on stability/testing: I broke way more Win10 boxes with updates than linux boxes...

              Originally posted by swoorup View Post
              Development for open source drivers for a major vendor is done by few people who don't have resources to test every single permutation, at least to a lesser extent than windows does. If linux just worked, everyone would already have moved over to wayland years ago. But still we haven't fully transitioned yet and its more than decade already. Get over it.
              I'm fairly sure that "Linux" has is at least competitive in the amount of testing and development hours logged compared to Win. There are many areas where Linux far outperforms Win. Sure, Linux desktop is a bit the ugly duckling.
              Regarding wayland, this is a long-term effort to transform the ecosystem. Wayland protocol has been stable for a long time. Compositors and applications are now catching up.
              Win took also a long time to get form Win95/98 ecosystem to XP, or from XP to 10, regularly having an entire 'bad' generation (in part due to graphics) because the ecosystem took a while to catch up.
              Similarly, we can only guess how long Apple's metal API took to develop
              Last edited by mppix; 04 July 2021, 05:17 PM.


              • #87
                Originally posted by chocolate View Post
                In my circle of gaming pals, everybody uses Windows but they are all on the fence ready to switch with enough reassurance that everything will keep working. They will get it once Proton matures, even though right now there's no rush.
                In my circle, people use Win because of (i) MS office, (ii) gaming, and (iii) specialized proprietary software, where (iii) is getting better quickly.
                Nobody particularly likes the platform and folks generally agree that it is a money and privacy grab.

                Not sure if we will ever get there for everything. However, things like running in a VMs is only getting easier and this is also the default way how Mac users run esoteric Win apps. If only flatpak could run MS Word


                • #88
                  Sure, people say one thing and do completely different. But the fact is that numbers don't lie. I do personally want to see linux succeed on the desktop, which means more people/businesses develop on the linux platform, but its going to take quite a while to get there. The good thing going for linux is that code that is put out for linux development is usually top notch and a lot more thought out and rigorously discussed. Whatever good experiment happens in other OSes would likely end up in linux over time.

                  Until we reach the point that there is not much benefit to keep developing OSes internals, linux would always lag behind in desktop. What we need is features to stabilise and thus api's to stabilise, giving confidence for other people to develop for the linux platform.


                  • #89
                    Imagine liking rocky road ice cream and being concern more people are not get the same thing.


                    • #90
                      Microsoft is constantly introducing interesting flagship techs like AutoHDR and that harddrive boost thingo in win11, while with win10 they offered dx12. The cost is they put it behind a paywall of buying a new OS and upgrading, its pretty cheeky and annoying. I hope Linux can get similar features down the line, without the paywall and telemetry!