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Valve Continued Doing A Lot For Linux Gaming & Open-Source Radeon Drivers In 2020

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  • bridgman
    replied
    Originally posted by Kreezxil View Post
    I want to know where the Linux has a 1% share of the market statistic comes from; near as I can tell that is just something you say when you think a platform is irrelevant. It has been my experience that when anyone says a percentage without a citation it's made up. For instance on my Discord where I have 1000+ members for my Minecraft mod packs. I could say that about 25% run on Linux. But where would I've gotten that number? Am I saying that at least 250 of them are running Linux? Clearly it's conjecture. Just going on conversations alone and whom I've suggested going to Linux when they complain about the insane updates from Windows based on memory alone that is at about 25%, even then it's still a made up number. Actively I would say out of 1000+ members there are about 15 people in total that talk to me and 25% of them probably are on Linux based on the conversation. This is like a certain viral statistic. So if the real sample is 25% of 15, and you base that against the total population rounded to 1000, the actual percentage might be (still conjecture you see):
    15 * 25% = 3.75 / 1000 = 0.00375 * 100 = 0.375%

    Which is completely made up. Looks good but it isn't.

    What happened to articles "and the like" that had citations?
    AFAIK the primary sources of OS usage info have been the same for a while, to the point where citing them on every post gets tedious. One of the challenges with measuring Linux usage is that it depends a lot on which particular domain and source you are looking at, eg:

    gaming - Steam stats - just under 1%
    gaming - independent publisher stats - 2-3%

    general - Statcounter - just under 2%

    developer - w3schools - just under 5%
    developer - stack overflow survey - 25%

    embedded - haven't seen any good stats recently; my impression is that Android has been eating into desktop Linux share but unconfirmed

    server - generally accepted as >50% but no specific sources that I am aware of

    workstation - mostly anecdotal at the moment via app developers; used to be 30-50% but lower these days

    The "developer" domain varies a lot depending on which OS will be the eventual target of the developer's work, eg people developing for Windows desktop/laptop target generally use Windows, while people developing for server deployment are much more likely to use Linux.

    Each of the above sources has its own challenges, eg Steam defaults web purchases to Windows if not used on Linux in first two weeks; web browsers sometimes fake the OS string to Windows for better compatibility etc...

    https://store.steampowered.com/hwsur...tform=combined
    https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market...ktop/worldwide
    https://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp
    Last edited by bridgman; 31 December 2020, 01:18 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • oiaohm
    replied
    Originally posted by Terr-E View Post
    An important distinction to make here is that Valve is not a publisher, outside of their own games. They are (primarily) a distributor. The 20-30% Valve takes is in addition to the share the games publisher takes. I've read stories that go as far as Valve taking 30%, publishers taking 50%, leaving only 20% of the game's revenue for the actual developer. This isn't so much a problem for companies like Rockstar, who are both developing and publishing their own games, but might be(come) a problem for devs like Gearbox Software ( famous for their Borderlands series ) who depend on publishers like Take-Two / 2K for their releases. It's at least a 3-way split ( sometimes more if multiple developers / publishers are involved ) and the developers get the short end of the stick every time.

    Now, I'm not saying it's not fair that Valve takes a 30% cut, I am not a bookkeeper. I'm just saying that developers getting the smallest piece of the pie when they are the ones that actually make the product is definitively not fair IMMO.
    The solution ? I wouldn't know where to start. People being d***s is a problem that has been around since the dawn of mankind…
    https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/...am-game-sales/

    When bookkeepers go looking the Valve cut is a max of 30% the key word is "Max" that is missed a lot. The average is around 20% to valve but that 20% is a average not the min Valve does take. Its really simple to miss that some of the special prices on steam is valve cutting into their own share not into the developer/publishers share and the keys Valve let game publishers sell themselves yes Valve let the publishers/developers sell those keys without paying a cent to Valve yet they register into the steam services system.

    When you buy a game third party that is hosted in steam its anywhere between 30% to valve if you bought it on steam at full price to 0% to valve if it was a key your got from publisher/developer by some other means.

    So its 0-30% not the 20-30%. The correct way it write it is: Valve get between 0-30% with average being 20% from game sales of third party paid for games on steam. (yes is a horrible line to write it all correct)

    Of course there is some of games that is 100% to valve that is stuff valve developed or vacuumed up from deceased companies.

    https://store.steampowered.com/app/5...e_for_Wesnoth/
    Yes you also have the true open source games given out by steam of course valve does not get a cut out of any donations to those games. Yes was why before it was important to say paid for games because if its all games on steam it is really a lot lower than 20% when you start allowing for other costs. The fun of running retail you have products there that you are making loss on that you are crossing fingers person will come in door and by something else.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kreezxil
    replied
    I want to know where the Linux has a 1% share of the market statistic comes from; near as I can tell that is just something you say when you think a platform is irrelevant. It has been my experience that when anyone says a percentage without a citation it's made up. For instance on my Discord where I have 1000+ members for my Minecraft mod packs. I could say that about 25% run on Linux. But where would I've gotten that number? Am I saying that at least 250 of them are running Linux? Clearly it's conjecture. Just going on conversations alone and whom I've suggested going to Linux when they complain about the insane updates from Windows based on memory alone that is at about 25%, even then it's still a made up number. Actively I would say out of 1000+ members there are about 15 people in total that talk to me and 25% of them probably are on Linux based on the conversation. This is like a certain viral statistic. So if the real sample is 25% of 15, and you base that against the total population rounded to 1000, the actual percentage might be (still conjecture you see):
    15 * 25% = 3.75 / 1000 = 0.00375 * 100 = 0.375%

    Which is completely made up. Looks good but it isn't.

    What happened to articles "and the like" that had citations?

    Leave a comment:


  • Terr-E
    replied
    Originally posted by Alexmitter View Post
    30% is a more then fair amount for a publisher, publishing costs a lot.
    An important distinction to make here is that Valve is not a publisher, outside of their own games. They are (primarily) a distributor. The 20-30% Valve takes is in addition to the share the games publisher takes. I've read stories that go as far as Valve taking 30%, publishers taking 50%, leaving only 20% of the game's revenue for the actual developer. This isn't so much a problem for companies like Rockstar, who are both developing and publishing their own games, but might be(come) a problem for devs like Gearbox Software ( famous for their Borderlands series ) who depend on publishers like Take-Two / 2K for their releases. It's at least a 3-way split ( sometimes more if multiple developers / publishers are involved ) and the developers get the short end of the stick every time.

    Now, I'm not saying it's not fair that Valve takes a 30% cut, I am not a bookkeeper. I'm just saying that developers getting the smallest piece of the pie when they are the ones that actually make the product is definitively not fair IMMO.
    The solution ? I wouldn't know where to start. People being d***s is a problem that has been around since the dawn of mankind…

    Leave a comment:


  • bladerunner
    replied
    We -as gamers on linux- own a lot to the amazing work made from the Valve devs.

    Leave a comment:


  • piorunz
    replied
    Originally posted by bridgman View Post

    Yes, if you are running a stock distro you probably have RADV as your default Vulkan driver.

    if you have vkinfo available you can run that and look at GPU ID.
    Thanks! I think it works:
    Code:
    Layers: count = 4 
    =================
    VK_LAYER_VALVE_steam_fossilize_32 (Steam Pipeline Caching Layer) Vulkan version 1.2.136, layer version 1:
           Layer Extensions: count = 0
           Devices: count = 1
                   GPU id = 0 (AMD RADV NAVI10 (ACO))
                   Layer-Device Extensions: count = 0
    Didn't knew I even have steam pipelines in my computer, Always thought of it as fully electronic device

    Leave a comment:


  • CochainComplex
    replied
    Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
    ... well i tell you something i Bought bulldozer FX8320 cpu in a time 2013 all the people bought intel 3770K and 2700K because it was faster on windows with old games. and bulldozer was faster on linux in multitasking. on GPU site the same story.
    dito (FX8350) served me well till 2020 ...home desktop. I was wating till AMD pushed some proper sucessor. with zen 2 they did. even zen 1 triggerd me.

    Leave a comment:


  • Qaridarium
    replied
    Originally posted by bridgman View Post
    .
    tell your AMD people there is simple reason why they should increase support of Valve/Proton.
    if AMD helps bring more hardware demanding games run well on linux the people will start to buy more expensive AMD hardware.
    The linux people already do have better hardware than windows people but imagine like very hardware demanting games like DayZ work then the people have pressure to buy more expensive amd hardware.
    the point of linux users already have better and more expensive hardware proof that they are willingly to spend even more.

    I know DayZ for example is not some modern Ray-tracing game you sell 6800XT but it is even more impressive to see that many of my friends want to play DayZ instead of a Raytracing game...
    and ARMA3/DayZ from Bohemia Interactive tent to be very hardware hungry and in the case of no raytracing the 6900XT is even much faster than a RTX 3090... means a DayZ customer would buy the 6900XT instead of 3090 because the game has no raytracing anyway and amd is faster without raytacing.

    Linux Desktop is 1% marketshare and because of this you make prioritisation/discrimination but in my point of view this is just the wrong way of thinking. and why is this so ?
    because these statistics are numbers of the "past" and at best "Present" but it is fact that past and present to not care in the business world. the "Future" is what counts the best.
    the 1% linux desktop people have the will to buy faster and more expensive amd hardware
    but tell me why should i upgrade my vega64 to a 6800XT for 1000€ right now and upgrade my Threadripper 1900x to a 2950X for 750€ right now? why should i ? my games like DayZ just don't work. and other people have the same problem. we desktop linux people have the will to buy better hardware but in fact we have no reason why we should do so because the games just don't work.

    in the past there was the excuse of amd is bankrupted and loses money so there is no room for improvement ... well i tell you something i Bought bulldozer FX8320 cpu in a time 2013 all the people bought intel 3770K and 2700K because it was faster on windows with old games. and bulldozer was faster on linux in multitasking. on GPU site the same story.

    so now AMD makes a lot of money means the excuse does not count anymore... in my point of view amd could make even more money in the future if they start to make hardware demanting games like DayZ work on linux. even if the past and present statistic is only 1%

    on windows you support all games even games without big hardware hunger but on linux if you have small team you sould start with the hardware hungry games. to improve the demant on new hardware.

    Leave a comment:


  • unis_torvalds
    replied
    I am just super happy anyone (with the means) is tackling this issue. It seems Gabe Newell has made it his personal mission to provide gamers an alternative to Windows and I think it's just great!

    Leave a comment:


  • bridgman
    replied
    Originally posted by piorunz View Post
    Thad RADV driver.. What is it? Do I have it?
    😳🤔 I'm using normal Linux distro (Manjaro) with Mesa. No idea what drivers I should install on top of normal Manjaro to have all benefits?
    Yes, if you are running a stock distro you probably have RADV as your default Vulkan driver.

    if you have vkinfo available you can run that and look at GPU ID.

    Leave a comment:

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