Wine-Mono: Marrying Mono With WINE

[droidhacker]

You're hilarious and adorable, y'know that?

Just for the record, you would need considerably more actual experience before we would consider hiring you. More education would probably also help, 3 years just doesn't cut it these days, and academia support really doesn't impress anyone.

[directhex]

Just for the record, you would need considerably more actual experience before we would consider hiring you. More education would probably also help, 3 years just doesn't cut it these days, and academia support really doesn't impress anyone.

Still adorable, still hilarious.

I work where I want to work. That's how jobs in Free Software work. Personal recommendations. Your CV is your online footprint. Your portfolio is your commit logs.

You really haven't got a clue, have you?

[droidhacker]

Still adorable, still hilarious.

I work where I want to work. That's how jobs in Free Software work. Personal recommendations. Your CV is your online footprint. Your portfolio is your commit logs.

You really haven't got a clue, have you?

Sure... if you don't want to get PAID.
Call back in 10 years when you're a little more experienced.

[directhex]

Sure... if you don't want to get PAID.
Call back in 10 years when you're a little more experienced.

I'm literally grinning from ear to ear at just how adorable you are. I just want to tickle your tummy and make baby noises.

[nightmarex]

Wait what was this thread about? Oh yeah Mono with wine. It makes it a far more capable Windows compatibility layer. In fact I feel this is kinda Mono's purpose or calling.

Now to the other crazy crap going on I used to think assembly was the only way to go. Long crazy barely decipherable almost always incompatible assembly code and I loved it. Marveled at the speed of whatever I implemented compared to "those C guys". I like python for maybe config file editors however I don't like the idea of having python deamons waking up my idle cpu for BS. I like Mono for attempting what Wine did before it make code previously unusable outside Windows to a larger audience. Flip side to it I don't EFFIN need it for a notepad clone! I don't use GTK3 either I run LXDE with GTK2 apps only. I don't use GUI python things or this or that for the exact reason pointed out earlier it's a waste. Personally I wouldn't loose any sleep over mono getting wide spread use, I would just not use those applications (even at great suffrage if need be) however you can use them and I will be just fine. The Linux world is extremely flexible so don't stress over one application that you DON'T HAVE TO USE!

[alcalde]

Here's the bit I don't understand. There is currently an ACTIVE lawsuit going after Google for using Java. MS has never sued anyone over .NET.

So why does everyone persist in saying that .NET has more legal encumbrances?

I understand that MS is the boogie man, but Sun is actually worse.

Because conspiracy theories (and with droidhacker as a prime example, bullying) run rampant in the Linux community.

Mono isn't "encumbered"; RMS merely made a post a long time ago about maybe something sorta could happen and that's been enough to scare people ever since.

Wikipedia explains it very well:

Mono?s implementation of those components of the .NET stack not submitted to the ECMA for standardization has been the source of patent violation concerns for much of the life of the project.[71] In particular, discussion has taken place about whether Microsoft could destroy the Mono project through patent suits.[72] So far these concerns have proven to be unfounded.[73]

The base technologies submitted to the ECMA, and therefore also the Unix/GNOME-specific parts, are not problematic due to Microsoft's explicitly placing both ECMA 334 and ECMA 335 standards under the Microsoft Community Promise. The concerns primarily relate to technologies developed by Microsoft on top of the .NET Framework, such as ASP.NET, ADO.NET and Windows Forms (see non-standardized namespaces), i.e. parts composing Mono?s Windows compatibility stack. These technologies are today not fully implemented in Mono and not required for developing Mono-applications, they are simply there for developers and users who need full compatibility with the Windows system.

Should patent issues ever arise, the Mono project's stated strategy for dealing with them is as follows:[74]

Work around the patent by using a different implementation technique that retains the API, but changes the mechanism; if that is not possible, they would
Remove the pieces of code that were covered by those patents, and also
Find prior art that would render the patent useless.

In addition, Mono is also included in the list of software that the Open Invention Network has sworn to protect.[75]

On July 6, 2009, Microsoft announced that it was placing their ECMA 334 and ECMA 335 specifications under their Community Promise pledging that they would not assert their patents against anyone implementing, distributing, or using alternative implementations of .NET.[76] However, their position regarding the non-ECMA components like ASP.NET, ADO.NET, and Windows Forms (which are the bone of contention) remains unclarified.

Following criticism from the Free Software Foundation's Richard Stallman, Canonical Ltd., makers of the Ubuntu Linux distribution, came out with a Mono Position Statement[77] which states that "It is common practice in the software industry to register patents as protection against litigation, rather than as an intent to litigate. Thus mere existence of a patent, without a claim of infringement, is not sufficient reason to warrant exclusion from the Ubuntu Project." The statement then goes on to say that they would therefore continue to ship Mono in Ubuntu until the patents actually become a real threat rather than simply a perceived threat.

Fedora Project Leader, Paul Frields, has stated "We haven't come to a legal conclusion that is pat enough for us to make the decision to take mono out." [78]

In short, there's no clear way to imagine a scenario in which a Mono programmer is doomed, unlike what has been stated on this board, between ECMA, Community Promise, patents only applying to Windows-specific compatibility code, workarounds possible, OIN patent umbrella protection, etc. The unspoken final protection is that MS just doesn't care about desktop Linux anymore. Ballmer's lying awake at night worrying about iPads and Android phones, not Linux on the desktop.

[allquixotic]

This is awesome. All Michael has to do is mention the word "Mono" and people expend pages and pages of effort on discussions that have occurred 100 times before on Phoronix, and countless thousands of other times elsewhere on the Internet.

It really boils down to whether or not you believe Microsoft's community promise. Those of us with time machines can go into the future, figure out whether Microsoft screwed over the free software community, and come back and tell us all the result: either Microsoft ceased being an entity prior to betraying the promise, or they betrayed it prior to ceasing to being an entity.

For such a simple dichotomy about possible future events, people sure do posture and him and haw a lot about it.

Look, I'll make this real simple for you guys:

All ye who have looked into your crystal ball and seen the devil horns pop out of Steve Ballmer's head (each horn impaling reams of paper on which lawsuits are printed), don't use Mono or Mono apps.

All ye who have looked into your crystal ball and seen that Microsoft's community promise held the test of time and nobody got sued, go ahead and use Mono or Mono apps.

All ye who simply don't care about the future, do whatever the fuck you want to (in WTFPL style).

All ye who think you are in charge of determining what software platforms other people should or should not use, kindly go fuck yourselves.

The End

[crazycheese]

[DllImport ("libc.so")]


The day this happens in kernel, Linux is officially sabotaged. I promise I be nice, I promise I be good, I promise I be fair. ProMiS, proMiS, proMiS. And a story of anti-linux and anti-opensource emails.


There are three kinds of people in this thread:
1) Microsoft junkies
2) FOSS fighters
3) Senseless mercenaries.

[crazycheese]

Because conspiracy theories (and with droidhacker as a prime example, bullying) run rampant in the Linux community.

Mono isn't "encumbered"; RMS merely made a post a long time ago about maybe something sorta could happen and that's been enough to scare people ever since.

Wikipedia explains it very well:



In short, there's no clear way to imagine a scenario in which a Mono programmer is doomed, unlike what has been stated on this board, between ECMA, Community Promise, patents only applying to Windows-specific compatibility code, workarounds possible, OIN patent umbrella protection, etc. The unspoken final protection is that MS just doesn't care about desktop Linux anymore. Ballmer's lying awake at night worrying about iPads and Android phones, not Linux on the desktop.

conspiracy.
ECMA = meaningless
Community Promise = no legal value
patents = held by MS
Doesn?t care.

Mono isn't "encumbered"?
1) GPL/BSD it,
2) bring _all_ patent pool to _independent_ protection insitute
3) remove architecture-specific bindings/namings

1+2+3, too hard?

Mono = .Net for the poor.
If something vital on non-ms starts building upon it, it automatically becomes ms-like for the poor.

You are planning to build a house on the slimy ground, educate! You are no good architect.

[directhex]

1) GPL/BSD it,

It's already GPL/BSD.

See http://packages.debian.org/changelog....1-3/copyright

2) bring _all_ patent pool to _independent_ protection insitute

It's already got this, see entries 990ish on http://www.openinventionnetwork.com/...def_table3.php

3) remove architecture-specific bindings/namings

Wait, what? Make it have *less* functionality? Stop it from working well on any OS, by removing the UNIX enhancements? Wat?