SDL 3.0 Will Now Prefer PipeWire Over PulseAudio

[darkbasic]

Why make native pipewire support when there is a working pipewire-pulse? I don't understand the point of multiplying sound APIs: libpulse/jack is enough on the desktop.

I am not arguing about the need for native apis vs emulated ones: they're the ones who implemented native pipewire support so there must be some advantages otherwise they wouldn't have done so. I'm arguing about the pipewire-pulse check to trigger the usage of the native pipewire backend.

[rmfx]

So… it doesn’t use pipewire native basically, it just targets pipewire-pulse in the case of a system that has both pw and pulse…
I think it’s time to default to pipewire native.

[Danny3]

Great!
But honestly I wish that more Linux projects would prioritize PipeWire / WirePlumber and Wayland sooner and faster!

[Weasel]

pipewire-pulse won't be a thing forever.

Then PipeWire is dead, since a lot of apps only have PulseAudio backend. Closed source apps (and games) that won't even receive updates anymore. So please don't fucking start with having them updated.

This is literally proof why Linux userland always fails in comparison to Windows.

This is also why Wine is the saving grace of Linux: it gives a proper, backwards compatible platform for the apps eventually using the Linux kernel. Best of both worlds.

This is why I will always choose the Windows version of an app, at least for archival purposes, unless it's throwaway or temporary usage. I don't fucking trust those clowns who develop the userland. I don't care what they say. It is devoid of trust. Completely untrustworthy, like words of charlatans.

It will take at least 50 years of not a single compatibility layer removed in entire userland before trust is regained. Actions > words.

You reap what you sow.

[SilverBird775]

It is you on your own with your each specific device and modes. Whoever came up with the idea that USB is good for audio must be prosecuted. I wont even touch the last remaining native PCIe devices, those are over ~10 years old already and dead most development nowadays go to wireless BT technologies, that I don't care of.

99.9% people actually don't care for audio as long something garbles out the speakers... even less actually have the ability to not be subjective and actually measure what's going on.

Real tragedy and a huge loss of audiophile investments is the cancelation of the PCI slots. It seems USB devices appeared out of desperation since USB is the only candidate to survive PCI-E.

The random reader who wonders how it is even a problem please pass by, enjoy your monthly upgrade routines. Audiophile equipment never gets old or expire, it only wears out. And it's worth half a kingdom plus kidney.

[johanb]

I am not arguing about the need for native apis vs emulated ones: they're the ones who implemented native pipewire support so there must be some advantages otherwise they wouldn't have done so. I'm arguing about the pipewire-pulse check to trigger the usage of the native pipewire backend.

One guess could be that pipewire might be running on the system even if it is not used, for example a distro that uses pipewire on Wayland for video screen sharing but has not yet migrated from pulseaudio to pipewire-pulse for audio.

[Ferrum Master]

Real tragedy and a huge loss of audiophile investments is the cancelation of the PCI slots. It seems USB devices appeared out of desperation since USB is the only candidate to survive PCI-E.

I wasn't aiming only at Audiophile actually, it wasn't my goal. But to purposely force to operate at native DAC modes is a basic need for me, for sure, I know what I am doing hardware wise. I've also encountered problems using game emulation using pipewire, while pulse worked fine, stutters and FPS drops. I have a mixed bag of experience, also with games. Thus I am pretty baffled why the praise? It even doesn't have a proper config tool, and I even want it per app. Profiles? Sure, nice idea. While watching YT some pops and whistling occurs often, what audiophile? That thing sometimes works worse than AM Radio.

But yeah PCIe sound is dead. All latest cards actually incorporate pcie to usb bridge on them, fake it till you make it. What's even the point making them internal? Suck EMI from GPU?

Sound API wise Windows is miles ahead of Linux, there is no denying it.

[Wtay]

This check is not so great.. I thought we decided on checking what services the session manager provided.

I guess it will do for now until someone implements something more robust.

[Brittle2]

I thought this was strange too. In the (long distant) scenario where a system may not even have pipewire-pulse, would this fail as it tries to use pulseaudio instead of native pipewire?

one of the pipewire devs said that the pulseaudio protocol is fine, the problem was the implementation, so i think pipewure isn't a replacement for pulso, it's isn't that bad, what pipewire native interface can bring is more options, and less latency idk and keep pulse for simple things, that's my opinion (based solely on the voices of my mind lol)

[SilverBird775]

I wasn't aiming only at Audiophile actually, it wasn't my goal. But to purposely force to operate at native DAC modes is a basic need for me, for sure, I know what I am doing hardware wise. I've also encountered problems using game emulation using pipewire, while pulse worked fine, stutters and FPS drops. I have a mixed bag of experience, also with games. Thus I am pretty baffled why the praise? It even doesn't have a proper config tool, and I even want it per app. Profiles? Sure, nice idea. While watching YT some pops and whistling occurs often, what audiophile? That thing sometimes works worse than AM Radio.

But yeah PCIe sound is dead. All latest cards actually incorporate pcie to usb bridge on them, fake it till you make it. What's even the point making them internal? Suck EMI from GPU?

Sound API wise Windows is miles ahead of Linux, there is no denying it.

Oh, such a pain points! I had plenty of experience programming audio for audiophile community in windows to actually tell a difference and learned the hard way how picky DACs can be. Sure thing i touched both PW and PA as well just to feel it - and they both suck in many aspects.

The per-device configuration is missing. Global variables, what a nonsense! Format negotiation is absent: there is no way to ensure PipeWire on the final format, PW may covertly switch it at any time. It just designed all wrong from the ground up.

Cannot share the common excitement about PipeWire as well. It's just the same sort of inconvenience and disappointment as PulseAudio.

Sorry all for the whining. Linux really need it's own Larry (Microsoft Jedi behind WASAPI). Since I don't want to be all negative, I had to say that PW\PA is better then having nothing at all.