Linux 5.9 Brings Safeguard Following NVIDIA's Recent "GPL Condom" Incident

[noQaPLvxLF1c]

If this is the case the person will make excuse to leave Linux over items like printer support as well.

Well, I am of the opinion that the software should be made to run on the hardware. Not that the hardware should be picked to meet the software's arbitrary demands. The distinction might be subtle but it's an important one to make. The hardware enables you to do the things you do on your machine. The OS is just there to facilitate that hardware actually functioning as a well oiled machine.

I have been more realistic that AMD cards are not the best but when it comes to long term Linux support AMD and Intel has been better than Nvidia when running current distributions with old cards.

I build and run systems for 10+ years. Nvidia you will normally run into card support trouble a 5-7 years. AMD and Intel its fairly much until the card/cpu fails that is on average with AMD cards 12 to 14 years. So there could be a cost reason to go AMD over Nvidia.

Whereas this is an entirely valid point to make and most likely completely accurate as well, it changes nothing. Because... what happens 5 - 7 years from now changes nothing about this GPL Condom debacle we see unfolding today. 5 - 7 years from now, whatever fallout that might come of this debacle will be old news. But that fallout still has the potential to lead to grave consequences well before those 5 - 7 years have come and gone. And like many other people living in 2020 and not in 2025 (or 2032 in your AMD support example), COVID-19 has ensured me being financially somewhat insecure. And possibly for some time to come. So, let's assume worst case for a moment and this indeed leading to nVidia deciding to just abandon consumer grade GPU support on Linux, since that is the smallest portion of their income anyhow... well... what am I to do? Can't very well replace it with an AMD. No money!

And, well, again... you try finding an AMD GPU with decent performance that is completely passively cooled. You will not find one. Full stop, end of story. Been there, done that. I tried, I really, really tried. But the fastest passively cooled cards are, without fail, nVidia. And I have my reasons for requiring passive cooling on that front.

Again, your point is very valid... it's just entirely irrelevant. And I don't mean that in an insulting way, mind you. Again, let me stress this... it's a valid point to make. nVidia is indeed atrocious when it comes to longevity of their support chain. It's just a moot point for a situation that is developing as we speak and not <x> years from now.

[chocolate]

There is more than enough guilt and responsibility for this debacle to go around, for almost everyone even remotely involved. Let me elaborate.

So, here I am, with my custom build. Consisting of an AMD CPU (for obvious reasons) and an nVidia GPU (try finding a passively cooled AMD that can compete with a passively cooled 1050Ti, you will not find one). And running Linux, obviously. Manjaro to be precise.

Now, this whole GPL Condom bullshit might leave me up a creek without a paddle. Because, worst case scenario... nVidia pulls out. Which means support for Linux would be pulled. Which means I would be left with the open source driver. Yeah... goodbye performance. So, switch to AMD then? Again, goodbye performance. You will simply not find quality passively cooled AMD cards that do well in any scenario. You just will not, full stop. Tried and failed. If there had been an AMD out there, I would have gone with that choice. There wasn't.

So, what then? Well, this just leaves one choice and one choice only...

... dump Linux.

A job well done, Greg Kroah-Hartman, you just killed Linux with this antagonistic attitude. Yes, I am blaming the Linux developers. I cannot blame nVidia for simply being better than AMD has been for quite some time at designing GPUs. That would be ludicrous. But, I cannot blame AMD either. Since, well, they did not cause this whole GPL Condom bullshit, they have no part in it. So, who do I blame then? Cannot blame the open source developers of the open source drivers. Because, well, they have to work backwards, reverse engineering shit. That's no easy feat and it's to be expected that open source drivers are behind proprietary, closed source blobs with regards to performance.

That just leaves... Linux. Linux is at the heart of this debacle. And it is Linux that is GPL licensed. Now, the benefits of the GPL aside... it does have a glaring problem -- It is far too constrictive. In fact, I would even go so far as to say that the GPL is making Linux an even more closed product than Windows is. Yes, Windows' source is closed. But, choices remain open. You can just run whatever hardware you want, in whatever combination you desire or need or have the money for, that last argument becoming incredibly crucial in this COVID-19 world. With over half a billion jobs having been lost globally already. The masses simply do not have the money anymore to switch hardware manufacturers just because some children in the Linux kernel mailing list bicker like a bunch of 5-year olds.

With Linux, I am now looking at being forced down a very, very narrow corridor of hardware choice. No Intel CPU, should be obvious why. No nVidia GPU... killed off by this GPL bullshit. Lovely. Or...

... switch to Windows. Because, unlike the GPL being eternally bound to Linux, which I can do nothing about, I can prevent Microsoft from spying on me thru Windows 10. Simply stick it behind a PiHole, blocking any and all access to any and all Microsoft services, Microsoft owned domains and so forth and so on.

Good job, Linux developers and maintainers... good job. You just made someone who swore off Windows consider returning back to it. Just because I will not stand for being forced to purchase new hardware just because you lot cannot see that the GPL is the worst thing to ever happen to IT.

Open Source is great... but not if it also ends up with Closed Choice.

That must be the most amount of verbal diahrrea I've ever encountered covering a banal "I don't understand proper Pareto-efficient freedom (GPL) VS anarchy (any permissive license)".

[pal666]

I'm really curious what this means to Canonical (ZFS) and Google (Android).

google is smarter than canonical, android kernel is gpl

[pal666]

NetFlix has long been using FreeBSD.

because it was originally built by bsd person. and it uses linux ec2 instances because you can't have freebsd zealot taking care of every decision

BSD failed? When? Where? What are you smoking? FreeBSD is very much alive and kicking.

where is bsd alive outside of your imagination?

[pal666]

So people pushing ideologies are once again making life harder for people who just want to use their hardware.

you can fuck yourself with you hardware, but you can't steal other people's software

I'm surprised BSD isn't getting more traction due to this, to then eventually just give up on Linux. Would save a lot of headaches.

because you are imbecile living in imaginary world. bsd can't get more traction because it sucks and it sucks because it's not gpl

[pal666]

Meanwhile I've recently got rid of the RX 5600 XT and bought the GTX 1660 Ti instead because AMD open source drivers suck ass (unstable, very high temps in idle, have serious bugs) and don't even support HW accelerated video decoding. So much for AMD being open source "friendly".

I prefer to use a GPU which has high quality drivers vs. a GPU which has open source drivers because open source is not a freaking magical pill which provides quality.

i have rx 580 and its driver is wonderful(and much better than novideo's shit). meanwhile you've just shown that you are unable to make smart buying secisions

[noQaPLvxLF1c]

That must be the most amount of verbal diahrrea I've ever encountered covering a banal "I don't understand proper Pareto-efficient freedom (GPL) VS anarchy (any permissive license)".

Well, at some point in life, hopefully sooner than later... you will learn that you are not the measure of all things and your opinion of the GPL is not the standard by which we should all live. Especially not when the most constructive thing you have to say is 'verbal diahrrea'. Honestly, that just completely invalidates your opinion as far as I'm concerned.

I know the GPL well enough not to think of it as the best thing since the invention of the wheel. And I am entitled to be of that opinion. Denying me that is, well... the opposite of anarchy. Which is far more offensive and dangerous than the anarchy you referred to. Replacing one form of an oppressive regime (an excessively closed software chain) with another oppressive regime (tossing aside any criticism of the GPL as 'verbal diahrrea') is just... well... being as oppressive as the original regime.

[pal666]

It's a known thing among the AMD Linux crowd that the newest AMD GPUs usually have bad to horrible Linux support for up to a year, sometimes more.

it's your invention. polaris support was solved in a week or two after launch. navi is an outlier

[pal666]

The RX 5000 series does not support HW accelerated video decoding yet via the open source Mesa stack. End of freaking story. AMD fans cannot even read - they can only posture.

but unlike you, every amd fan who replied to you was able to buy amd videocard with hw accelerated video decoding. the only one stupid enough to buy before checking for support is you

[oiaohm]

Honestly I don't see a single reason of keeping a GPU for longer than six years. In six years time any of your GPUs can be replaced with a GPU which consumes a half or a fourth of power and runs graphics applications much faster and better, and supports HW video decoding not available on your old GPU.

This is that you have never really sat down and done the TCO. The reality is the power savings at half/fourth vs cost of a new card does not in fact work out to change the card a 6 years old. Power savings you will never recover the cost of the new card unless you run the card for at least 15 years but you run into driver issues with Nvidia before that. Yes 15 years is the break even point for power savings vs cost with GPUs and that is if you are sticking to entry level GPU without vendor premium charges.

It depends on the graphics applications like old games there is only so much GPU power they will use. The realities when you are looking at TCO to perform task as long as the GPU has enough grunt to run the application you use decently you fairly much should run the GPU to death. For example I play a lot of frozen bubble the latest Nvidia or AMD gpu will not help that same with openttd. I do some high loads on GPU with blender from time to time but those if they take a bit longer it does not matter to me its drink/food break time in workflow.

So if your money is going to be tight and you are like me on particular machines don't having massively increasing GPU need buying AMD card and using it until end of live is the value choice.

The integrated GPU into CPU does have its issue at times of resulting in lower CPU clock speeds due to the extra heat load.

Do note I said their could be a cost reason birdie not that it is for everyone. Particular systems going a AMD card or AMD/Intel integrated graphics is the cost choice due to their long term support with Linux and being able to run them to death without major driver issues. Having to upgrade card because drivers don't work right any more as you do with Nvidia is not upgrading because you need the new gpu performance for you tasks. I have no issue with people upgrading their GPU to get more performance for the tasks they are doing but there are a lot of cases that GPU upgrade makes no sense because end user will not get any more operational performance and the power savings do not justify the new card cost.