starshipeleven since the last two Debian editions, by default, Debian handles by itself the pinning toward official and unofficial (debian multimedia only) repositories; then if you use a third party repo you had better to setup manually the pin-priority in the apt preference to decide which repos has the priority toward overlapping libraries. I mean the issues with LMDE seems more a bad configuration from the Mint Team rather than an apt problem.
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Originally posted by Danielsan View Poststarshipeleven since the last two Debian editions, by default, Debian handles by itself the pinning toward official and unofficial (debian multimedia only) repositories; then if you use a third party repo you had better to setup manually the pin-priority in the apt preference to decide which repos has the priority toward overlapping libraries. I mean the issues with LMDE seems more a bad configuration from the Mint Team rather than an apt problem.
OpenSUSE I can add repos and give them priorities, but zypper will also remember what packages I installed from what repo and will NOT pull down everything else is in that repo whenever it detects a higher version. It will just notify me "hey repo X has this package at higher version Y, this is the command to manually switch that package to that", while GUI tools don't even do that at all and assume I want to stay on the same repo when updating packages.
So it has "automatic package pinning" if we use Debian terminology.
I mean the issues with LMDE seems more a bad configuration from the Mint Team rather than an apt problem.
There is no real configuration that changes how apt deals with broken dependencies, that's just its own algorithm for conflict resolution.
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Originally posted by starshipeleven View PostApt isn't robust for shit, it relies too much on repos being perfect and transactions never failing when installing. Reality is different.
Plus it really sucks when you have multiple repos offering the same package at different versions.
Of course the rate of failures isn't very high, but when it fails it's a fun couple hours to fix the mess.
Originally posted by starshipeleven View PostI've had apt try to delete half my system at least 3 times when I was using Linux Mint Debian with their normal repos
Please don't blame Debian for your "operator error".
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Originally posted by NotMine999 View PostYou obviously like to ignore the good advice given here -->> https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian
Oh we don't need a rail here on this hole, let's just tell people to "lookout for holes and avoid them".
Please don't blame Debian for your "operator error".
Maintainers and packagers are human and you need to account for human errors in there too.Last edited by starshipeleven; 09 March 2020, 05:36 PM.
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Originally posted by starshipeleven View PostThat's the point, you need to go and edit text files ( /etc/apt/preferences) to decide priorities of each singular package you want to override the default repo priority. This is bs, we are in the 21st century, I'm sick of doing menial tasks like that.
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Originally posted by Danielsan View PostThis is the difference between a lean distro and a bloated distro, that's all.
(laughing in Arch)
I guess people not man enough for Arch need some other place to call home, meanwhile OpenSUSE gets the same job done with zero effort on my part.
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Originally posted by starshipeleven View PostDebian a lean distro?
(laughing in Arch)
I guess people not man enough for Arch need some other place to call home, meanwhile OpenSUSE gets the same job done with zero effort on my part.
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Originally posted by Danielsan View PostArch is surely leaner than Debian but OpenSuse is more bloated than Ubuntu.
Zero effort means you need to have all the services and features enabled by default
Also the process of adding a new third party repo or package is simplified and relies on the GUI taking a file from the OBS (the repository for all third party stuff, similar to AUR or PPAs) and guiding you through the process.
You can also still do stuff manually by editing files if you want, the GUI actually parses the same config files and will not delete your manual changes.
With Debian you always need to look up some manual to know what you need to write and where, because there is no way you remember something you did ONCE like 5 years ago.
By the way the issue was with LMDE,
This happens time to time in Tumbleweed, but the package manager (on CLI) is smart enough to warn you and recommend to abort the transaction, while if run by GUI it automatically aborts that transaction and updates other stuff only.
I'd like to point out that other Debian derivatives also had similar issues with broken packages (OpenMediaVault), but that's actually genuinely on them (specifically the community plugin repo), the dev team there kind of sucks.
But there apt's assumptions made troubleshooting and fixing the system much harder than it would be on OpenSUSE where I would not have gotten in that hole in the first place.
and with the non-sense to have a third party repos when they could just work directly on Debian and having a full cinnamon experience out of the box directly within it.Last edited by starshipeleven; 10 March 2020, 12:29 PM.
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Debian is built to use its own repositories if you start to use third party repos and PPA it is fair that something may get broken, but Debian doesn't get broken by itself you can safely use "apt upgrade" and it doesn't overwrite anything and keep the older packages, but if you use "apt full-upgrade" it removes and updates libraries and you may have some dependencies issues that usually are resolved in a couple of days.
Debian repositories must follow some rules, if you have third party repos that doesn't follow the specification you do it at you own risk (PPA are such pain), and having a GUI and something that recognizes a third party repo and treats it as such it means having a service active listening for this scope, and for me this means being bloated.
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Originally posted by Danielsan View PostDebian is built to use its own repositories
but Debian doesn't get broken by itself you can safely use "apt upgrade" and it doesn't overwrite anything
Debian repositories must follow some rules,
and having a GUI and something that recognizes a third party repo and treats it as such it means having a service active listening for this scope,
It's just that the CLI package manager is able to do package pinning on its own either automatically or by asking you to pick what you want from a list of possible actions, without requiring you to edit files manually.
OpenSUSE adds GUI and management stuff on top, but it's largely tangential, the discussion here is about apt vs zypper (the two package managers).Last edited by starshipeleven; 10 March 2020, 05:21 PM.
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