Systemd 241 Being Prepared With "System Down" Security Fixes

[Weasel]

does it?

where is http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/ or https://www.gentoo.org/ for windows based systems?

Who the fuck is talking about "linux" (which is too generic)? We're talking about what makes up an OS, and for example DEs that rely on systemd are PART OF THE SYSTEM. Nobody who wants to use "linux" wants to use ONLY THE KERNEL you dumbass.

[Weasel]

they don't - go and write a fucking API compatible replacement for systemd-logind and you are done

Go and write API compatible replacement for Windows or a Windows component and you are done (you know, ReactOS, or Wine but the latter doesn't work with most drivers). In fact, as you can see, there are *ACTUAL REAL* alternatives to Windows components, ABI and API compatible, but NOT with most systemd, isn't that even more ironic because you have even MORE freedom with Windows (realistically, not theoretically) with what's available?

Yes bring more how "Windows is way larger", I never denied it. But systemd is also large as fuck compared to upstart and other init systems. YOU don't draw the line or threshold, so this logic is stupid. The analogy just fits beautifully. I'm sure if systemd grows to be as big as Windows you'll still be in denial.

your freedom is to write your own replacement until nobody else does - it's that easy

Just like your freedom is to write your own Windows replacement like ReactOS to run Windows drivers -- it's that easy.

your real problem is nobody asked you how to write and design software you want to use where the question is why do you want to use it at all then and that nobody gives a shit about you

Nobody gives a shit about you either, since 90%+ of market share on desktop is Windows. Fucking small fish like systemd talking big are hilarious.

[Murple]

after 12 years running Linux everywhere and 7 years systemd on workstations and servers i don#t give a shit about any marketshare or guys like you

I'm assuming you are some kind of 'tech professional'? I'm interested to know what experience you have and what role you work in.

[Murple]

Freelance?

[Murple]

for some years yes but how does this matter?

I am just trying to understand your perspective better. I can see what you like about it and how it suits you. What 'tight fights' have you had with Poettering?

[Weasel]

it's amazing how much bullshit you write

ReactOS is far way from a useable system, WINE is a compketly different layer

And a systemd ABI/API compatible component is even FURTHER AWAY because IT DOESN'T EVEN EXIST. Retard.

Furthermore what if I don't want to use journald at all but want to use the rest of systemd? Replace it with a dummy? Or what?

You suggest something that's even more ridiculous than ReactOS: you ask for an alternative that simply does not exist. At least with Windows you DO have an alternative. One that's buggy and far from complete, sure, but at least it's SOMETHING. Anything is higher than zero.

Stop fucking telling people to write their own replacement. Because you don't consider ReactOS a good alternative to Windows, and at least it exists, so shut the fuck up hypocrite.

you simply can't replace a component on a windows system

You can the same way you do with replacing a systemd component. Sure you might have to care about the entire dependency chain, but same as on Windows. Sometimes gotta replace everything to have it still working, that's just how these two shits operate (systemd & Windows). Don't get me wrong I think Windows is a great platform, but terrible implementation and OS services, this is one reason.

but you can on a Linux systems

Not with systemd since there are no replacements that use the same ABI/API.

systemd is NOT monolithic, it's a toolset of different tools maintained in a common source repo, all that components could be seperated projects and if that would be the case and the developers would use alias names on the different projects you shithead won't complain at all

Windows is not monolithic either. In fact, not even its kernel is monolithic (unlike Linux). But its components have intertwined dependencies and applications rely on it so it's just as good as monolithic IN PRACTICE.

[Weasel]

i am just not that happy with some attitudes because as for any other software not everything is golden about systemd but at the end of the day it's a great piece of work helping to get a lot of long outstanding issues solved and get rid of a lot of useless diversity between distributions when you worked for years on redhat systems and sit in ront of a debian or suse setup feeling like a moron because everything is different, not better, just different for no sane reason

diversity is nice but not for just be different

Well, I fully agree with you there.

Problem is, it's not about having diversity, but about not fucking bringing the whole package with it. If you want to use systemd units (because they are good, again, I agree) but not journald or whatever, that should be an option and possible. It's like with updating graphics card drivers: you want to update only the card drivers, and not the entire fucking kernel with it. Separate components and make them OPTIONAL.

[Murple]

until know you and your 4 troll friends out of 5 idiots in every forum dind't bring any *technical argument* while "i want", "what if" and "i like" are none and so either suck it or use some other system, there are at least 3 distributions which don't have systemd mandatory and hence just us eone of them - it's that easy

Free Software is, to many people, about far more than merely the technical function of a piece of software. You may not care one jot about the wider issues such as ethics and the benefits to society, but other people do. "We call this free software because the user is free".
You have willfully failed to recognise that not one person here has disagreed about the convenience that e.g. systemd unit files provide. And not one person here has claimed that init scripts were created by God as a gift to man and should be worshipped for all time.

Systemd is a deliberate attempt to standardise large parts of the Linux ecosystem. This is not a secret, it is a stated intention. And as you have rightly pointed out there are great benefits to this, especially to people like you who didn't like to look stupid for not knowing how other peoples distros worked. And I do think you have a point, to a certain degree. But some of systemd positioning itself as the beginning and end of Linux userspace is impacting on user freedoms in a very large way. At worst this can can seen as a powergrab by poettering and redhat, vying for control over one of the most important operating systems on the planet. More power to the few = less freedom for the many.

You argue that people are free to write their own software and should not complain about it. I argue that systemd is actively hostile towards people wanting to avoid using their userspace solutions. I argue that systemd is trying to become ubiquitous, like a cancer that is so embedded in it's host it is almost impossible to remove.

While I completely accept this clearly does not concern you and you feel the benefit outways the cost, I appeal you to recognise that other people do not care about being some whizkid tech professional, and care more about the societal issues (for example, me)

I also appeal for you to cease your personal insults and demonstrate a little compassion towards others. You talk of people not having "technical arguments" but there is nothing technical about calling someone a shit head.

PS Don't get me wrong I love cussin', I'm just not so down with hate

[cybertraveler]

...

Your last post was beautifully written. A pleasure to read.

I think some people might miss what you are referring to Murple because they have their head down, focusing on the trees. You're talking about the forest; the big picture, abstract concepts and how the component parts fit together and what it is they will likely produce.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

You can point a man towards wisdom, but you can't make him think.

[Weasel]

than write one shithead

Why should anyone write one when people wrote ReactOS and is a joke to you? Fucking piece of shit idiot who knows it's a pathetic suggestion and yet keeps parroting it to waste people's time.

than at least you have to bring ONE technical argument against it to begin with and no a security bug wich is fixed is none because with that argumentation we would need to shotdown our computers at all

> bug was here for 2 years, all eager to be exploited by hidden hackers (who don't reveal it obviously).

"which is fixed"