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Manjaro Linux To Drop 32-bit Support

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  • #11
    Originally posted by sdack View Post
    No. All major distros are "after" PC users as you've put it.
    Yeah, because there are massive amounts of ARM, PPC, MIPS and whatever systems that are used as a PC (i.e. GUI system able to run a modern web browser and some other heavy software like games) and not as a gui-less server system doing 2-3 dumb things 24/7.

    Major distros ALSO target PC users, but not just them, Servers is where Linux sells and where most of the money comes from.

    Manjaro isn't different or special in this regard to others.
    FYI Manjaro isn't even a "major" distro, it is a derivative.
    It's like 4-5 dudes making a more user-friendly Arch for PC users (and they do a good job at that). Their goal is the same as Antergos's. Making a good PC distro for PC users. Everything else is not their goal and they don't even have the manpower to deal with it.

    But they are now dropping the 32-bit PC users and it doesn't seem like they're having much of a choice when Arch Linux is doing it, too, now do they?
    Listen, 32-bit hardware on PC is pretty much obsolete bullshit, or stuff that should have never been made (old-gen Atom processors I'm looking at you).

    I'd rather be much more interested in discussing the negative sides of losing the 32-bit support
    Sure let's.

    If they drop 32-bit support you won't be able to install Manjaro, a PC-only distro, on hardware that barely runs modern programs anyway.

    We are talking of first-gen Core processors and older, or crappy netbooks. That hardware is already plagued by crappy processors, usually 2GB max ram and crappy integrated GPU too, obsolete expansion interfaces and so on and so forth.

    This hardware is pretty much on its last legs for the Manjaro's goal (running a modern distro with modern programs), and for that matter also Arch's.

    it's ok when users are being abandoned and forced to switch to 64-bit or to choose a different distro
    Is it OK to have developer resources tied up for what is a very small minority of people?

    Is it worth impacting everyone just to keep a few users happy?

    Because that's the tradeoff of keeping stuff supported.

    And it's ok when Linux does it? I sure don't agree, but I can accept it if it's done by Arch/Manjaro, because they're lacking the manpower. But I sure as hell won't accept some BS about what's good for users as if this was a Microsoft press release.
    Calm your tits. None said it's OK to drop 32bit support from Linux kernel, and there is none even asking for it.

    As said above, some distros that focus on (very) modern GUI software are just recognizing that they can't offer an acceptable experience on 32-bit hardware without wasting too much resources, and that's fine.

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    • #12
      Originally posted by eydee View Post
      Not that hard if you package components from 1995. They were written for 32-bit in the first place.
      Ah come on, quit posting this bs. Debian Testing or Unstable have mostly up-to-date packages also for 32-bit.

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      • #13
        Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
        Yeah, because there are massive amounts of ARM, PPC, MIPS and whatever systems that are used as a PC (i.e. GUI system able to run a modern web browser and some other heavy software like games) and not as a gui-less server system doing 2-3 dumb things 24/7.

        Major distros ALSO target PC users, but not just them, Servers is where Linux sells and where most of the money comes from.

        FYI Manjaro isn't even a "major" distro, it is a derivative.
        It's like 4-5 dudes making a more user-friendly Arch for PC users (and they do a good job at that). Their goal is the same as Antergos's. Making a good PC distro for PC users. Everything else is not their goal and they don't even have the manpower to deal with it.

        Listen, 32-bit hardware on PC is pretty much obsolete bullshit, or stuff that should have never been made (old-gen Atom processors I'm looking at you).

        Sure let's.

        If they drop 32-bit support you won't be able to install Manjaro, a PC-only distro, on hardware that barely runs modern programs anyway.

        We are talking of first-gen Core processors and older, or crappy netbooks. That hardware is already plagued by crappy processors, usually 2GB max ram and crappy integrated GPU too, obsolete expansion interfaces and so on and so forth.

        This hardware is pretty much on its last legs for the Manjaro's goal (running a modern distro with modern programs), and for that matter also Arch's.

        Is it OK to have developer resources tied up for what is a very small minority of people?

        Is it worth impacting everyone just to keep a few users happy?

        Because that's the tradeoff of keeping stuff supported.

        Calm your tits. None said it's OK to drop 32bit support from Linux kernel, and there is none even asking for it.

        As said above, some distros that focus on (very) modern GUI software are just recognizing that they can't offer an acceptable experience on 32-bit hardware without wasting too much resources, and that's fine.
        So you're just trying to pick scraps here and don't think there's an issue.

        Well, may that as it be. Debian however, while still delivering support for quite a few platforms, also performs well if you've followed the recent Phoronix tests. So I hope that whatever they're trying to accomplish by dropping support goes into making a better 64-bit version, because cutting off support and not performing well just isn't very attractive.

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        • #14
          Originally posted by sdack View Post
          So you're just trying to pick scraps here and don't think there's an issue.
          Yeah, facts that prove you're wrong are scraps, great argument.
          Debian however, while still delivering support for quite a few platforms, also performs well if you've followed the recent Phoronix tests.
          This only shows you're completely oblivious to the userbase of both and you're just trying to pick a fight over philosophical concepts.

          Debian is for stable deployments you just keep updated for security over like 5 years, Arch and its derivatives are rolling bleeding edge distros for people running them on PCs and expecting the latest and greatest software (just as most people on Windows).

          This means that it's irrelevant if Debian does better on some synthetic test here, because people on Manjaro/Arch is looking for software that isn't 2-3 years old, like is usual on Debian stable.

          So I hope that whatever they're trying to accomplish by dropping support goes into making a better 64-bit version,
          FYI: a rolling release using bleeding edge programs (i.e. new stuff, good chances of breakage) requires more manpower for each supported architecture than a frozen release every 3 years that gets only security patches backported.

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          • #15
            Why is it that in every post about moving to 64-bit, there's someone (and there's always one) that want to hold back progress for everyone else? Look, 32-bit is dying, it has been for some time, and it probably should have fully died years ago. And every time one puts it off for a year, in a years time the same arguments will be used again, ad infinitum.

            I was around in the 16 -> 32bit transition too, and back then the same old arguments were used. Computer hardware progresses, and we need the ecosystem to progress with them. But there's always someone who wants to hold things back.

            First they complain that 64-bit uses more memory. To that, I say what about the memory being used to keep 32 and 64-bit code around? That extra usage eclipses going to 64-bit entirely. And what about all the advantages of 64-bit code (more registers, being able to safely default to much better optimizations, etc)? Or about the fact that 64-bit CPUs have been around for almost 1.5 decades.

            When are some people going to accept that 32-bit is dying/dead, and it WILL disappear soon. Why not get ahead of the curve (which we're already behind on anyway), and just get with the times?? It is going to happen; why not just accept it and embrace it?

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            • #16
              Originally posted by sa666666 View Post
              Why is it that in every post about moving to 64-bit, there's someone (and there's always one) that want to hold back progress for everyone else? Look, 32-bit is dying, it has been for some time, and it probably should have fully died years ago.
              I would say its dead. I am surprised to hear so many distros still even provide a 32 bit version. What is the point of even wasting resources on 32bit? You can trash pick fairly decent 64 bit computers these days.

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              • #17
                Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
                Yeah, facts that prove you're wrong are scraps, great argument.
                This only shows you're completely oblivious to the userbase of both and you're just trying to pick a fight over philosophical concepts.

                Debian is for stable deployments you just keep updated for security over like 5 years, Arch and its derivatives are rolling bleeding edge distros for people running them on PCs and expecting the latest and greatest software (just as most people on Windows).

                This means that it's irrelevant if Debian does better on some synthetic test here, because people on Manjaro/Arch is looking for software that isn't 2-3 years old, like is usual on Debian stable.

                FYI: a rolling release using bleeding edge programs (i.e. new stuff, good chances of breakage) requires more manpower for each supported architecture than a frozen release every 3 years that gets only security patches backported.
                I'm not fighting you, but if you feel attacked by my opinion then there must be something to it or you just wouldn't feel this way. I then just read how you keep defending it. Do you even use Manjaro or why are you worried?
                Last edited by sdack; 09-03-2017, 02:35 PM.

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                • #18
                  Originally posted by eggbert View Post
                  I would say its dead. I am surprised to hear so many distros still even provide a 32 bit version. What is the point of even wasting resources on 32bit? You can trash pick fairly decent 64 bit computers these days.
                  32-bit as a PC standard is certainly dead, but this has never stopped anyone from still using it. It's the fact that when decisions like these are being made (to stop supporting it in software) then users end up being forced to upgrade. So it just keeps being the "same shit, different day" when you've chosen a distro like this one.

                  So why choose Manjaro when it's not exactly having a large user base, is cutting off support for 32-bit, doesn't very much attract but it rather looks like it's slowly dying? It sure isn't the first distro to go extinct and it won't be the last either.
                  Last edited by sdack; 09-03-2017, 02:41 PM.

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                  • #19
                    nowadays 32 bit operating systems are completely useless as programs and utilities developed in 32bit. It's time to dismissed it.

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                    • #20
                      Originally posted by sdack View Post
                      I'm not fighting you, but if you feel attacked by my opinion then there must be something to it or you just wouldn't feel this way. I then just read how you keep defending it. Do you even use Manjaro or why are you worried?
                      I'm just pointing out bullshit when I see it.

                      Your opinion is plain wrong and I've posted enough reasons why it is.

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