The Systemd-Free Debian Fork Celebrates Its Second Birthday

[oooverclocker]

Guys you join here to the article discussion for the second birthday of Devuan and all you write is how useless and stupid it was, that people supporting it were insane and so on.
Now that some of us defend Devuan you write that you don't understand haters of systemd and that we waste our time to argue against it?

How would you like it when I came to your home telling you that your lifestyle totally sucked and all you do was bullshit, you weren't even accountable? And when you would try to explain why you do this I tell you that I don't understand why you hate me and attack me???

To make it clear: You are the missionaries who come here trying to force us to love systemd - but we do really live happily without it. And in the end, I don't care if you use it or not. And I wouldn't care what you think about it. But you attacked it entirely so at least you have to concede the right to explain the decisions and finally it's none of your business whether we keep supporting and using it.

[danwood76]

https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2014-May/019657.html

Read the message, check who wrote it, and then re-evaluate please.

Again I say thank god it failed.

"Unless the systemd-haters prepare another kdbus userspace until then this will effectively also mean that we will not support non-systemd systems with udev anymore starting at that point. Gentoo folks, this is your wakeup call."

Firstly that is a long time after udev was pulled into systemd (early 2012 if I remember) so is not a counter argument to my point and secondly do you lack reading comprehension?

What Lennart is saying in that message is that if you want to support the new version of udev you need to support (or write a wrapper for) for the new API. There is nothing wrong with that, many software products change interfaces all the time.

[blackiwid]

oooverclocker
I just looked again the articles of the first 3 sites, some even wished devuan would be more successfully, which you took as trolling too. Some made some minor jokes not very aggressive.

Then you started a unfair attack, you had problems in ubuntu because of ubuntu and maybe debian because they had special problems the original systemd distros never had.

Systemd run flawless for most people years before debian adapted in fedora and archlinux. So you thought you have to attack with at least very questionable arguments. Its a very weak defense line if your solution
has no advantage over systemd but claimed bugs in systemd which are easily fixable.

And then you go even more nuts, I hope I don't mix it up maybe it was somebody else that brought up the google dns thing? Well you write that you use or used ubuntu, and complain about that fallback thing,
while ubuntu has or had very long activated a adware.

So you attacking them much more, you make real attacks on the software they only made minor general jokes or even said they hope they would get their shit together and release after 2 users finaly a stable version is
that so unreasable to ask?

Also I remember the time and in this thread also you and others attacked lennert personally. Which is toxic as hell, and has nothing to do with, defending your choice.

Be constructive about it show that you have to offer some real advantages, its really weak if the only advantages you have are claimes of intertruced weaknesses on the successor solution.

As example I am no big mate fan, but they have found a niche which some real advantages, its good for weak hardware nobody will deny that and it gives a good choice for people that like a very mouse focused very
traditional work flow. They try to keep up with gnome and compeat with it. And ir was part of a broader vision. There are distro releases and even official spins for basicly every distro. Also the flame about it is
much smaller no attacks against gnome-shell developer.

Its just a different taste, they never complained why debian switched to gnome shell nothing. You see the differences? Anti-systemd crowd beeing extremly aggressive, trying to force or shame debian to use the software
you as minority want etc, is much different from "I just wanna use it myself on either a existing fork or I fork it myself".

Nobody attacks guixsd for not using systemd, there are maybe some that disagree or see the project as joke, but the users of it know its advantages so they don't really care or are able to laugh at themself. And they
don't attack systemd, they habe just some undeniable reasons why they cant use it in their distri. So its mutual respect, or ignorence of each other.

I mean as other comparsion, I was pretty pissed about ubuntu switching away from gnome. I got my shit straight and then after a while I switched away to fedora, and learned that I should have switched years ago (to a big degree because of systemd btw), I hate here and there an Ubuntu, or Canonical, but it has somethnig to do with moral issues with lisenses and stuff like that. But its not about a personal vandetta I have with a core developer of canonical or Shuttleworth or somethnig like that.

Heck I even thought about buying a 2nd hand nexus 4 to put ubuntu touch on it. Cause its still better than this android garbage (if you dont like proprietary software, and even without java is horrible to develop to and I think the ram usage is also not very efficiant).

But I dont start a fight with somebody that loves android, if he does so, go ahead.

The incredeants of that shitstorm were just to bad:
1. many websites that made very clickbaity articles ful of systemd hate
2. the personal hate of 1 or 2 persons
3. the idea that this people can force debian developer what they have to include and what not.

Again I dont like what Canonical did with Unity (and with mir), but I tried to cope with it (usind the ppas) and when it got to much, I switched away, I never startet a shitstorm because of it.

I maybe posted here and there a article why I think as example fedora but also archlinux is the better distro than ubuntu, becaause I made that comparsion for myself. But I will not start a fight about it, normaly.

[duby229]

"Unless the systemd-haters prepare another kdbus userspace until then this will effectively also mean that we will not support non-systemd systems with udev anymore starting at that point. Gentoo folks, this is your wakeup call."

Firstly that is a long time after udev was pulled into systemd (early 2012 if I remember) so is not a counter argument to my point and secondly do you lack reading comprehension?

What Lennart is saying in that message is that if you want to support the new version of udev you need to support (or write a wrapper for) for the new API. There is nothing wrong with that, many software products change interfaces all the time.

I read it and comprehended it full well. I can see disdain and hate just as easily as anyone else can.

[starshipeleven]

Guys you join here to the article discussion for the second birthday of Devuan and all you write is how useless and stupid it was, that people supporting it were insane and so on.
Now that some of us defend Devuan you write that you don't understand haters of systemd and that we waste our time to argue against it?

How would you like it when I came to your home telling you that your lifestyle totally sucked and all you do was bullshit, you weren't even accountable? And when you would try to explain why you do this I tell you that I don't understand why you hate me and attack me???

To make it clear: You are the missionaries who come here trying to force us to love systemd - but we do really live happily without it. And in the end, I don't care if you use it or not. And I wouldn't care what you think about it. But you attacked it entirely so at least you have to concede the right to explain the decisions and finally it's none of your business whether we keep supporting and using it.

I only care of arguments used against it. If you say "I don't like it", it's fine.
If you try to claim bullshit like that it is a threat to your integrity or that it was forced into distros, I tend to react.

[starshipeleven]

I read it and comprehended it full well. I can see disdain and hate just as easily as anyone else can.

Disdain yes, hate no.

[aht0]

false dichotomy alert. void linux seems to be doing quite well.

Mint, Alpine, Manjaro as well..

[starshipeleven]

Mint, Alpine, Manjaro as well..

A bit of nitpicking:

Mint is not on systemd only because it is on a ubuntu LTS that is still using Upstart, next major release they will switch to systemd as they will take the next Ubuntu LTS that has systemd.

Manjaro OpenRC is not official but a community edition maintained by a guy here https://forum.manjaro.org/t/manjaro-...-xfce-net/3679

[aht0]

A bit of nitpicking:

Mint is not on systemd only because it is on a ubuntu LTS that is still using Upstart, next major release they will switch to systemd as they will take the next Ubuntu LTS that has systemd.

Manjaro OpenRC is not official but a community edition maintained by a guy here https://forum.manjaro.org/t/manjaro-...-xfce-net/3679

Granted. Does not change the fact of existence and availability of such options though. Which may or may not be subjects to change in the future.

You CAN still use Linux without using systemd if you are so inclined. That's all I care about.

[aht0]

I forgot PCLOS. Pretty good looking like Mint. Forked from Mandrake Linux bunch of a time a go. Systemd free as well.