The Systemd-Free Debian Fork Celebrates Its Second Birthday

[starshipeleven]

starshipeleven
It's easy to blame others while it looks like they work flawlessly without systemd...

emphasis mine. other init systems don't react if programs misbehave, so for example mishbehaving programs get nuked on exit and you will never know they were misebehaving. That's not "working flawlessly", it's "sweeping the shit under the rug".

I don't understand how you can trust some person who hardcodes Google servers in a program that's kind of a layer between you and the Kernel

what? please point me to the source where this happens: https://github.com/systemd/systemd

calling critics "assholes".

Were you talking of Lennart? I thought you were talking of Torvalds. You know, the "fuck nvidia" guy that has strong opinions on many other things.

Why would anyone put such effort in forcing this thing underneath every single distribution?

None, and in fact, none ever did. It's distro mantainers that thought it was good.

Why would anyone attack Torvalds that agressively, who is working hard observing the quality and granting security of the Kernel consistently, keeping our machines working?

how about grsecurity team? They were pretty critical towards linux kernel security.

The only thing I know is that I do not tolerate any piece of software compromising my integrity. I would rather not use the computer instead or just without network connectivity.

and this is connected to systemd how?

[duby229]

emphasis mine. other init systems don't react if programs misbehave, so for example mishbehaving programs get nuked on exit and you will never know they were misebehaving. That's not "working flawlessly", it's "sweeping the shit under the rug".

what? please point me to the source where this happens: https://github.com/systemd/systemd

Were you talking of Lennart? I thought you were talking of Torvalds. You know, the "fuck nvidia" guy that has strong opinions on many other things.

None, and in fact, none ever did. It's distro mantainers that thought it was good.

how about grsecurity team? They were pretty critical towards linux kernel security.

and this is connected to systemd how?

That's not entirely correct either. Udev. Obviously was supposed to force distro's into adopting systemd. LP said that much himself on multiple occasions. Fortunately the Gentoo devs were able tyo fork udev and then later on were even able to get upstream to work despite upstream attempting multiple times to break it. Which LP himself promised he would make sure that no other init could possibly work with udev.

Congradulations really belong to Gentoo for forcing LP's hand and making sure that udev would continue working outside of systemd. There are still some other components of systemd where that staus hasn't been achieved yet, but maybe someday.

[duby229]

EDIT: Mod queue keeps eating my posts.

I have several replies here.

[usooNgoh]

For example gconf2 depends on dbus-user-session and that depends on systemd

Not really. gconf2 (in testing/sid) depends on default-dbus-session-bus | dbus-session-bus. And dbus-x11, which doesn't depend on systemd, provides dbus-session-bus. Besides: GConf has been deprecated for years. GSettings was first released with Glib 2.26 in 2010. No reasonably up to date software should still depend on GConf.

[duby229]

EDIT: Here's what I'm saying, Systemd has a few concepts right. Although it's a gigantic bloated mess as a whole, there are bits and and pieces that make sense. Some of them, like udev, even predate systemd by years. And it was udev that was used as a tool to force systemd adoption. Fortunately, because of Gentoo, that failed.

[oooverclocker]

what? please point me to the source where this happens: https://github.com/systemd/systemd

https://github.com/systemd/systemd/blob/master/configure.ac#L1115

https://github.com/systemd/systemd/blob/master/configure.ac#L1193

Were you talking of Lennart?

Seems like I was.

the Open Source community is full of assholes

The only reasonable reaction is not to use systemd:

systemd people are not willing to play nice with the rest of the world. Therefore there is no reason for the rest of the world to cooperate with them.

and this is connected to systemd how?

It's connected by probably handing Google my DNS requests in specific scenarios without my consent???

[oooverclocker]

starshipeleven It looks like you will have to wait whether this time my post gets approved or not to get your answers...

[danwood76]

That's not entirely correct either. Udev. Obviously was supposed to force distro's into adopting systemd.

Duby stop trying to rewrite history.

You know the real reason udev was adopted into the systemd project?
It was unmaintained buggy crap and so someone had to take it over to fix the bugs, the only team that were willing was systemd.

The gentoo devs are perfectly happy with systemd and offer it as an option of an init system.

I have personally been using systemd for years and in my experience it is far superior to anything that came before it.

[starshipeleven]

Because, at the same time as they announced that implausibly optimistic deprecation window, they silently axed the concept of a "native.js" that provides an escape hatch so you can maintain your own APIs before convincing Mozilla of their necessity.

Now, it's only "WebExtensions Experiments", where you have to build your extension, prove the API's desirability, write code of sufficient quality to include in Firefox trunk, and convince Mozilla to merge it, all entirely within the nightly builds.

Under this regime, it would have been prohibitively demoralizing and/or difficult to produce things like Firebug which other browsers hurried to copy off Firefox.

Closing all holes is good imho, I've seen enough bullshit adwares that inject their stupid addons in Firefox (and chrome for that matter).
If you want to test stuff on your own you can always fork firefox.

Suppose someone sells out and starts bundling adware with a liberally-licensed extension. This refusal to allow new XUL extensions coupled with mandatory extension signing that can't just be turned off by a command-line argument means that forks like Beef TACO and AdBlock Plus can't happen anymore.

FYI Adblock plus or even ublock were powereless against adware served by local browser extensions installed by bullshit adware programs, all times I've tried, 100% fail.
So I don't see wtf are you talking about here.

(Now that I think about it, this is exactly the kind of thing the Tivolization clause of the GPLv3 was a response to. At least with Chrome, there's a thriving ecosystem of YouTube downloaders which instruct people on how to add --enable-easy-off-store-extension-install to their launcher shortcuts.)

Hm, that's probably why Chrome gets ass-raped by adware programs too.

As far as I was able to determine while experimenting with an extension of my own, Chrome/WebExtensions APIs lack the ability to specify an output path when writing to disk, so it's completely impossible to implement things like downThemAll! or Automatic Save Folder via that API. (The closest you can get is using the API for the browser's built-in downloads system, specifying a filename, and asking to skip the Save As dialog and go straight to the default download folder.)

As also stated in the official docs, they are willing to add webextension APIs to support extensions, see here for the work to support NoScript https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1214733

But yeah, in general there are many unhappy devs for extensions, just after they had to rush to support e10s (electrolysis aka pages run in a different process than the main FIrefox GUI).

Classic Theme Restorer is also a XUL extension so, when it gets sunsetted, I'll have to switch to either Pale Moon or Chrome to retain a proper menu (not a grid of toolbar buttons in a panel) and tabs which contract to icons rather than scrolling. (The latter should be attainable via userChrome.css in the near term, but not the former.)

EEEEEEEK!!!!!! PALE MOON!!!!! MALWARE!!!!! EVIL!!!! EXTERMINATE!!!! EXTERMINATE!!!!!

[duby229]

Duby stop trying to rewrite history.

You know the real reason udev was adopted into the systemd project?
It was unmaintained buggy crap and so someone had to take it over to fix the bugs, the only team that were willing was systemd.

The gentoo devs are perfectly happy with systemd and offer it as an option of an init system.

I have personally been using systemd for years and in my experience it is far superior to anything that came before it.

https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2014-May/019657.html

Read the message, check who wrote it, and then re-evaluate please.

Again I say thank god it failed.