Systemd Is The Future Of Debian

[justmy2cents]

chromeos shares upstart usage with ubuntu only by accident - author of upstart conveniently is working on chromeos
while authors of all other ubunty-specific shit aren't

even more than that. they still use 1.2 version as their latest and just backport fixes.

[psychoticmeow]

Who is Craig Bransworth to have such a spectacular reaction to the outcome?

https://lists.debian.org/debian-ctte/2014/02/msg00376.html

Wow.

[GreatEmerald]

Who is Craig Bransworth to have such a spectacular reaction to the outcome?

I'd say "a troll".

[chrisb]

the problem with Canonical's CLA is the asymmetry - Canonical has more rights than everyone else does. Other projects that are also under CLA do not have such asymmetry.

Oh really? http://openjdk.java.net/contribute/

Like many other open-source communities, the OpenJDK Community requires Contributors to jointly assign their copyright on contributed code. If you haven't yet signed the Oracle Contributor Agreement (OCA) then please do so

wrong. OpenSuse, Fedora/RHEL, Chrome adopted upstart. but, CLA was preventing them from working in it so OpenSuse, Fedora/RHEL switched away and Chrome is still using 1.2 version. no adoption was no problem, not being able to contribute was

If it's such a big problem for Red Hat etc to work with a CLA, then why do they base their enterprise software stack on OpenJdk, which requires contributors to assign copyright to Oracle?

[valeriodean]

No, the problem is that each of these people is employed by a company that is not Canonical and therefore each has a vested interest in making sure that their competitor is seen in a negative light. The CLA gives them an easy target even though it is no different than the F$F CLA.

Matt and Kay are employed by Red Hat, Scotty works for Google, none of these companies (including Canonical) have your interest at heart they are only concerned with their own profits.

I read several times why Canonical's CLA is different from the FSF's CLA, so I don't bother to repeat.
But even if the CLA is only on easy excuse to not contribute to the Canonical's project, then Canonical should remove it to proof that. Instead they don't want do it no matter what, so it looks like it's the right target of the problem.
Is it only a case that in the project where there are different contributors from different companies there is no CLA in the style of Caninical (strongly asymmetric)?

[Gusar]

If it's such a big problem for Red Hat etc to work with a CLA, then why do they base their enterprise software stack on OpenJdk, which requires contributors to assign copyright to Oracle?

There's a comment here that sounds very plausible: https://plus.google.com/111049168280...ts/NstZfwXbAti

I don't see Red Hat employees having problems with OpenJDK/Oracle contributor agreement (OCA) that allows relicensing by Oracle. OCA probably was accepted by Red Hat because of the importance of Java on the enterprise servers world and the Canonical one wasn't because they aren't forced by market pressure to contribute to those projects.

Are there examples where Red Hat has signed a CLA other than the Oracle one?


(OT rant: Why the eff doesn't Google+ have links directly to a specific comment? It's ridiculous.)

[Cthulhux]

Nice, Lennart breaks another Linux distribution now. I, as a BSD user, appreciate this.

However I find those discussions "ZOMG DAT MARKET SHARE!" disturbing. Linux's market share is a joke compared to Windows. Debian should drop Linux! Or what?

[interested]

I wonder by which authority Jackson is threatening with giving an ultimatum. Does he mean he'll formally resign from TC if he doesn't get what he wants?

No, he won't resign. The threat is about a GR; they tend to involve everyone in Debian, can result in huge flamefests when people are exchanging views, and a lot of thankless work. So he is using it as carrot and a stick; agree with Ian Jackson, and everybody avoids the hassle of a GR, disagree, and everyone will have an unpleasant time.

It seems to me, that Jackson is on thin ice here, since nobody have really asked the TC for an opinion about this. He seems to try to use the TC as a policy decider and enforcer, which isn't its scope.

It is also a slap in the face for the Debian volunteers that he will force them to really unfun work, like removing good features from their packages without good reason.

[Annabel]

That does not make any sense. If you value "no software" higher than "some proprietary software", you don't really deserve the world you're living in (well, at least, the computer you are using).

What? please re-read what you said. I would like to ask you to think before posting BS

in my opinion you are moron
did you read 3 links ppl gave to you on subject ?

Yes and in my opinion you are the ``moron''. When you dissagree with the opinions of someone you call him/her ``moron''? how mature

right from point when you start to require cla, kid

again with that shit...

[Rich Oliver]

I'm writing a little game app. I may choose to use an asymmetric cla at some point. I would like to see more proprietary software come to Linux. However there's a world of difference between an application and an operating system. Canonical have sought to dominate the Linux desktop and have used their privileged position to suit their own ends, at the expense of desktop Linux. Unity (a joke if ever there was one), Upstart and Mir have all caused a further fracturing of the linux desktop. Winodws 8 was the final kick in the teeth that I needed to get me off Microsoft, and what's the first thing I find about Linux, that Ubuntu are doing exactly the same trick as Microsoft, screwing their desktop users in the pursuit of building a tablet base. Sometimes a benevolent dictator can get things done. But not in this case. Canonical is a cancer within the Linux community. They are our bug number one. We have no hope of dealing with Apple or Microsoft until we've cut Canonical down to size. Luckily Shuttleworth is proving to be the Mussolini of Open Source.

Oh really? http://openjdk.java.net/contribute/
If it's such a big problem for Red Hat etc to work with a CLA, then why do they base their enterprise software stack on OpenJdk, which requires contributors to assign copyright to Oracle?

Linux desktop is small weak and fractured, although SystemD and Wayland are very promising developments. There are only so many people we can take on at once. For the time being we need to accept the JVM. We can't do without commercial backing. None of it is ideal but some commercial involvement is more helpful than others. Valve looks like it could play a very positive role in Linux. They've recognised that Canonical can not be trusted.