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Debian To Switch To Systemd Or Upstart

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  • #11
    Originally posted by MatthewPL View Post
    I will remove Debian from my disk (after 10 years) if they will switch to upstart. Fact that some Canonical employees are moving Debian into Ubuntu way, because of some political reasons is making me sick of them.
    A) They were voted into those positions. Blame democracy. What, you hate democracy?

    B) Upstart is used by Red Hat, which is a pretty big deal.

    C) Upstart is More MATURE than SystemD (I don't care what I capitalize, lolz, I hope you OCD hurts), especially due to Red Hat assistance in its stabilization.

    D) SystemD was thought of, coded, and made essentially linux only, while Upstart can be used on more platforms. Debian has a freebsd kernel too.

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    • #12
      Originally posted by dh04000 View Post
      while Upstart can be used on more platforms
      No, it can't. Upstart is Linux only.

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      • #13
        i'm sorry bsd guys

        Originally posted by Drago View Post
        I can't understand what is this BSD trend!? Will somebody explain to me.
        theres something like 10 BSD users out there that are upset that systemd is Linux only and that systemd will only work Linux kernel variant of Debian

        Systemd is the most universal init system for Linux, it's not perfect but it seems to work realy well for most of the things and do more than other init systems are doing currently

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        • #14
          Originally posted by timofonic View Post
          Mark Shuttleworth words were quite funny to me, because Canonical employees and rogue collaborators are the ones that try to influence a non-profit meritocratic organization like Debian to adopt their cathedral-like software. We have more than enough with stuff like CUPS, please avoid this shit.

          I use Debian on some of my systems, but I would remove it as soon as Upstart appears. It's a POS and I'm against Canonical politics, that are destructive to the free software community ways.

          They should ONLY choose a new init system based on objective technical merits, not because some corporate employees are in the governing board of the Debian project.

          OpenRC is a better candidate than Upstart, it's available on both Linux and BSD. But in my opinion, is quite outdated compared to Systemd and other commercial UNIXes.

          Despite the critics towards Systemd, it managed to do things a lot better than others and is progressing in a very fast way (it needs to improve in some important areas, that's true). Maybe Systemd can be improved to support non-linux kernels like FreeBSD or other UNIX-like ones like illumos, if there are enough developers and a good organized plan.

          Systemd is heavily inspired on Solaris SMF, maybe it could be interesting to see it on something like Dyson (a Debian/illumos distro). And then users/developers of the OpenSolaris forks would improve it too, based on their experience on their spiritual predecessor.
          Could you give some information about what is bad about upstart and what is good about systemd? I know it is really bad that only Ubuntu uses upstart and that everybody else uses systemd but what else?

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          • #15
            Originally posted by dh04000 View Post
            A) They were voted into those positions. Blame democracy. What, you hate democracy?

            B) Upstart is used by Red Hat, which is a pretty big deal.

            C) Upstart is More MATURE than SystemD (I don't care what I capitalize, lolz, I hope you OCD hurts), especially due to Red Hat assistance in its stabilization.

            D) SystemD was thought of, coded, and made essentially linux only, while Upstart can be used on more platforms. Debian has a freebsd kernel too.
            As far as I know Red Hat uses systemd and the main developer works for Red Hat? What does more mature mean in this context? Which distributions use upstart?

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            • #16
              Originally posted by dh04000 View Post
              B) Upstart is used by Red Hat, which is a pretty big deal.
              Red Hat is switching to systemd.

              Originally posted by dh04000 View Post
              C) Upstart is More MATURE than SystemD (I don't care what I capitalize, lolz, I hope you OCD hurts), especially due to Red Hat assistance in its stabilization.
              Somewhat true that Upstart has seen more years than systemd but Red Hat is switching to systemd in RHEL7

              Originally posted by dh04000 View Post
              D) SystemD was thought of, coded, and made essentially linux only, while Upstart can be used on more platforms. Debian has a freebsd kernel too.
              Upstart is also Linux only but it would be easier to port because it doesn't use as many linux specific interfaces
              Because systemd was made for linux it's much more powerful and exposes more linux kernel functionality than any other init system for linux

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              • #17
                Originally posted by dh04000 View Post
                A) They were voted into those positions. Blame democracy. What, you hate democracy?

                B) Upstart is used by Red Hat, which is a pretty big deal.

                C) Upstart is More MATURE than SystemD (I don't care what I capitalize, lolz, I hope you OCD hurts), especially due to Red Hat assistance in its stabilization.

                D) SystemD was thought of, coded, and made essentially linux only, while Upstart can be used on more platforms. Debian has a freebsd kernel too.

                Upstart in recent versions of Ubuntu (I think since Raring/13.04) now mix in some systemd services, like logind, but keeping upstart as pid 1. And they have these systemd services patched up to the wazoo so it can work without systemd as pid 1.

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                • #18
                  Originally posted by Ferdinand View Post
                  As far as I know Red Hat uses systemd and the main developer works for Red Hat? What does more mature mean in this context? Which distributions use upstart?
                  RHEL 6 uses upstart. But Red Hat 7 will use systemd.

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                  • #19
                    Originally posted by nerdopolis View Post
                    Upstart in recent versions of Ubuntu (I think since Raring/13.04) now mix in some systemd services, like logind, but keeping upstart as pid 1. And they have these systemd services patched up to the wazoo so it can work without systemd as pid 1.
                    Systemd is terrible... why would I want to install something 100x larger than sysvinit just so I can get binary encoded logs I need a running system to read....

                    1. bloated
                    2. prefers binary/proprietary over plain text and useable
                    3. its new... alot of effort to get you 1 and 2. The current solutions work... if anything OpenRC or Debian startup should be extended to support the needed features.

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                    • #20
                      Originally posted by MatthewPL View Post
                      I will remove Debian from my disk (after 10 years) if they will switch to upstart.
                      I feel the same about systemd.

                      Both Upstart and systemd suck

                      OpenRC FTW!





                      'Write programs that do one thing and do it well. Write programs to work
                      together. Write programs to handle text streams, because that is a
                      universal interface'

                      (Doug McIlroy)

                      In Other Words - Don't design like polkit or systemd
                      Last edited by Rallos Zek; 10-28-2013, 08:55 AM.

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