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  • #11
    Originally posted by marios View Post

    Yes, otherwise we would have gcc LTO merged and not only llvm LTO. Also we would have no Rust in the kernel. Finally it is way easier to merge something if your e-mail follows the <username>@<big-corporation-domain-name> pattern.
    So many assumptions, so little time.

    otherwise we would have gcc LTO merged and not only llvm LTO

    So as far as you are concerned the only possible reason this is the case is because Linux sold out and not because gcc LTO is not ready yet?

    It has nothing to do with the quality of the code, but because Linus is a shill?

    Also we would have no Rust in the kernel

    You consider this a bad thing also? In your opinion C is the absolute best programming language and everything should be coded in it?

    I guess you are not a big fan of Redox or COSMIC in this case?

    Finally it is way easier to merge something if your e-mail follows the <username>@<big-corporation-domain-name> pattern

    And you attribute this to Linux being a sell out and not the quality of the code coming from <username>@<big-corporation-domain-name> being of higher quality than the submissions of some random jabroni?

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    • #12
      Originally posted by sophisticles View Post
      This is not a good thing.

      When I the read article and followed the link to get a more detailed explanation, the stated benefits and stated issues this would resolve painted a picture of an organization in financial trouble.

      Sure enough, Gentoo itself confirms this with their financial statements:



      Gentoo is representative of nearly all open source projects, you have people that may know how to write code, sometimes, but they don't know how to make money because they are hampered by an absurd ideology that treats earning cash like a stigma.

      The Gentoo Foundation could learn a thing or two from the Linux Foundation and I am not talking about coding.
      Gentoo was never about making money to begin with, at least to my knowledge. It's not Ubuntu or SUSE or Redhat. It's more of a Debian.

      Most core and critical stuff is still run by volunteers.

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      • #13
        Originally posted by sophisticles View Post

        So many assumptions, so little time.

        otherwise we would have gcc LTO merged and not only llvm LTO

        So as far as you are concerned the only possible reason this is the case is because Linux sold out and not because gcc LTO is not ready yet?

        It has nothing to do with the quality of the code, but because Linus is a shill?
        Well, every time patches about gcc lto were posted, they were not merged. There is definitely a problem with gcc. I get that gcc lto does not work well with inline assembly. Linus could have made it clear by saying something similar to "we will have gcc lto in Linux when the gcc guys fix their excuse of inline assembler". This could press the gcc guys to fix their shit. Instead he kept saying that lto is useless, until google pushed for clang lto, which got immediately merged.

        Originally posted by sophisticles View Post

        Also we would have no Rust in the kernel

        You consider this a bad thing also? In your opinion C is the absolute best programming language and everything should be coded in it?

        I guess you are not a big fan of Redox or COSMIC in this case?
        Initially, I am a big anti-fan of Redox (it is a microkernel, so it will definitely suck performance-wise) and I find COSMIC something out of my interest developed by people with 0 taste (none with taste puts underscores and punctuation marks in their distro name).
        With that out of the way, I am strongly against mixing C and Rust in a single binary. It adds a shitton of complications with marginal gains. Also keeping rustafarians out, is alone good enough a reason to keep Rust out of your project. In other projects, Rust might be a good choice though, although I would never choose it (because I cannot read it without having the urge to take my eyes off).

        Originally posted by sophisticles View Post

        Finally it is way easier to merge something if your e-mail follows the <username>@<big-corporation-domain-name> pattern

        And you attribute this to Linux being a sell out and not the quality of the code coming from <username>@<big-corporation-domain-name> being of higher quality than the submissions of some random jabroni?
        Yes, actually bad code by big corporations can pass more easily than similarly bad code by some independent guy.

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        • #14
          About LLVM/Clang LTO MR being accepted faster than GCC LTO MRs, this mostly explains the issues
          Phoronix, Linux Hardware Reviews, Linux hardware benchmarks, Linux server benchmarks, Linux benchmarking, Desktop Linux, Linux performance, Open Source graphics, Linux How To, Ubuntu benchmarks, Ubuntu hardware, Phoronix Test Suite


          tl;dr: LLVM needed LTO for other reasons,like enabling support for Control Flow Integrity (CFI), so it got merged in 2021 (after trying since 2017, when support for compiling linux with LLVM was in itself experimental), wereas GCC only pitched it for the perf improvement but produced no measurable perf improvements until at least 2022 (after trying to add it to the linux kernel since 2014, when LTO was experimental in GCC itself, not just for the linux kernel)

          ...hardly any conspiracy material here



          how does "keeping rustaceans out" apply to people who are already kernel contributors in C code that are switching to Rust when they can because they think it's better (faster to write code for, easier to maintain, safer from some often-seen classes of code security flaws, etc)?‚Äč
          Last edited by marlock; 21 April 2024, 09:33 AM.

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          • #15
            If you find Gentoo useful, you may wish to check out the further developments in its approach to build systems at https://funtoo.org

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