Gentoo Linux Now An SPI Project

[watersb]

If you find Gentoo useful, you may wish to check out the further developments in its approach to build systems at https://funtoo.org

[marlock]

About LLVM/Clang LTO MR being accepted faster than GCC LTO MRs, this mostly explains the issues

https://www.phoronix.com/news/GCC-LTO-Linux-2022

tl;dr: LLVM needed LTO for other reasons,like enabling support for Control Flow Integrity (CFI), so it got merged in 2021 (after trying since 2017, when support for compiling linux with LLVM was in itself experimental), wereas GCC only pitched it for the perf improvement but produced no measurable perf improvements until at least 2022 (after trying to add it to the linux kernel since 2014, when LTO was experimental in GCC itself, not just for the linux kernel)

...hardly any conspiracy material here



how does "keeping rustaceans out" apply to people who are already kernel contributors in C code that are switching to Rust when they can because they think it's better (faster to write code for, easier to maintain, safer from some often-seen classes of code security flaws, etc)?

[marios]

So many assumptions, so little time.

otherwise we would have gcc LTO merged and not only llvm LTO

So as far as you are concerned the only possible reason this is the case is because Linux sold out and not because gcc LTO is not ready yet?

It has nothing to do with the quality of the code, but because Linus is a shill?

Well, every time patches about gcc lto were posted, they were not merged. There is definitely a problem with gcc. I get that gcc lto does not work well with inline assembly. Linus could have made it clear by saying something similar to "we will have gcc lto in Linux when the gcc guys fix their excuse of inline assembler". This could press the gcc guys to fix their shit. Instead he kept saying that lto is useless, until google pushed for clang lto, which got immediately merged.

Also we would have no Rust in the kernel

You consider this a bad thing also? In your opinion C is the absolute best programming language and everything should be coded in it?

I guess you are not a big fan of Redox or COSMIC in this case?

Initially, I am a big anti-fan of Redox (it is a microkernel, so it will definitely suck performance-wise) and I find COSMIC something out of my interest developed by people with 0 taste (none with taste puts underscores and punctuation marks in their distro name).
With that out of the way, I am strongly against mixing C and Rust in a single binary. It adds a shitton of complications with marginal gains. Also keeping rustafarians out, is alone good enough a reason to keep Rust out of your project. In other projects, Rust might be a good choice though, although I would never choose it (because I cannot read it without having the urge to take my eyes off).

Finally it is way easier to merge something if your e-mail follows the <username>@<big-corporation-domain-name> pattern

And you attribute this to Linux being a sell out and not the quality of the code coming from <username>@<big-corporation-domain-name> being of higher quality than the submissions of some random jabroni?

Yes, actually bad code by big corporations can pass more easily than similarly bad code by some independent guy.

[dimko]

This is not a good thing.

When I the read article and followed the link to get a more detailed explanation, the stated benefits and stated issues this would resolve painted a picture of an organization in financial trouble.

Sure enough, Gentoo itself confirms this with their financial statements:

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Foundation:Gentoo_Foundation_Finances_FY2022

Gentoo is representative of nearly all open source projects, you have people that may know how to write code, sometimes, but they don't know how to make money because they are hampered by an absurd ideology that treats earning cash like a stigma.

The Gentoo Foundation could learn a thing or two from the Linux Foundation and I am not talking about coding.

Gentoo was never about making money to begin with, at least to my knowledge. It's not Ubuntu or SUSE or Redhat. It's more of a Debian.

Most core and critical stuff is still run by volunteers.

[sophisticles]

Yes, otherwise we would have gcc LTO merged and not only llvm LTO. Also we would have no Rust in the kernel. Finally it is way easier to merge something if your e-mail follows the <username>@<big-corporation-domain-name> pattern.

So many assumptions, so little time.

otherwise we would have gcc LTO merged and not only llvm LTO

So as far as you are concerned the only possible reason this is the case is because Linux sold out and not because gcc LTO is not ready yet?

It has nothing to do with the quality of the code, but because Linus is a shill?

Also we would have no Rust in the kernel

You consider this a bad thing also? In your opinion C is the absolute best programming language and everything should be coded in it?

I guess you are not a big fan of Redox or COSMIC in this case?

Finally it is way easier to merge something if your e-mail follows the <username>@<big-corporation-domain-name> pattern

And you attribute this to Linux being a sell out and not the quality of the code coming from <username>@<big-corporation-domain-name> being of higher quality than the submissions of some random jabroni?

[marios]

Do you believe Linus sold out?

Yes, otherwise we would have gcc LTO merged and not only llvm LTO. Also we would have no Rust in the kernel. Finally it is way easier to merge something if your e-mail follows the <username>@<big-corporation-domain-name> pattern.

[TheMightyBuzzard]

Do you believe Linus sold out?

The Linux Foundation pulls in 177 million dollars a year and among the top 15 financial contributors are Red Hat, Microsoft and Intel.

You remind me of a friend of mine that back in the 90's was telling a bunch of us that U2 had sold out, because they had changed their music.

Another friend that was hanging out with us replied "yeah, they did sell out...of all their albums and concerts"/

There is nothing wrong from making a nice fat paycheck from the work you do and if open source contributors would get that through their thick skulls the Linux ecosystem wouldn't be anywhere near as half-assed as it currently is.

Linus? Linus doesn't owe us shit. It's his baby and he can do whatever he likes with it. Should the day come where corporate kernel settings are made mandatory instead of make flags or config settings, then yes, he will have sold out. Until then, it's a stupid question.

The Linux Foundation didn't "sell out" though. They were created to further corporate interests, and nothing else, right from the start. They're the ones we're being sold to.

[sophisticles]

You mean like how to totally sell out its users in favor of profits for a few select and unaccountable corporate overlords? Yeah, it really does lag behind in that area.

Do you believe Linus sold out?

The Linux Foundation pulls in 177 million dollars a year and among the top 15 financial contributors are Red Hat, Microsoft and Intel.

You remind me of a friend of mine that back in the 90's was telling a bunch of us that U2 had sold out, because they had changed their music.

Another friend that was hanging out with us replied "yeah, they did sell out...of all their albums and concerts".

There is nothing wrong from making a nice fat paycheck from the work you do and if open source contributors would get that through their thick skulls the Linux ecosystem wouldn't be anywhere near as half-assed as it currently is.

[TheMightyBuzzard]

This is not a good thing.

When I read article and followed the link to get a more detailed explanation, the stated benefits and stated issues this would resolve painted a picture of an organization in financial trouble.

Sure enough, Gentoo itself confirms this with their financial statements:

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Foundation:Gentoo_Foundation_Finances_FY2022

Gentoo is representative of nearly all open source projects, you have people that may know how to write code, sometimes, but they don't know how to make money because they are hampered by an absurd ideology that treats earning cash like a stigma.

The Gentoo Foundation could learn a think or two from the Linux Foundation and I am not talking about coding.

You mean like how to totally sell out its users in favor of profits for a few select and unaccountable corporate overlords? Yeah, it really does lag behind in that area.

[sophisticles]

This is not a good thing.

When I the read article and followed the link to get a more detailed explanation, the stated benefits and stated issues this would resolve painted a picture of an organization in financial trouble.

Sure enough, Gentoo itself confirms this with their financial statements:

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Foundation:Gentoo_Foundation_Finances_FY2022

Gentoo is representative of nearly all open source projects, you have people that may know how to write code, sometimes, but they don't know how to make money because they are hampered by an absurd ideology that treats earning cash like a stigma.

The Gentoo Foundation could learn a thing or two from the Linux Foundation and I am not talking about coding.