Debian 12.0 Released - Powered By Linux 6.1 LTS, Easier Non-Free Firmware Handling

[Britoid]

So exciting - systemd and nonfree firmware - you can't get THAT combination with any other distro. Way to set yourselves apart from the crowd, Debian.

I can't wait for the exciting headline "Debian planning an immutable version".

If you want another well supported non commercial generic distro that’s supported for a longish time you have to go the Red Hat route with Rocky, Alma etc.

If you’re wanting your current method of doing things to be supported between major releases, going the red hat route will bring pain as major versions often come with stack changes .

[phoron]

what's the point of using it when ubuntu LTS exists?

You can use Ubuntu LTS if you wants I think they still use Debian to base Ubuntu on.

I haven't tried Ubuntu in a long time but when I did it I found it was like a Debian where you remove packages, architectures, and made it more difficult to understand at a glance what's free and what isn't (I don't think Debian has progressed in this since, and it wasn't perfect back then). I didn't like Ubuntu any better than Debian. I also disliked that insulting slogan they had long ago "linux for human beings", like if those of us linux users from before Ubuntu weren't human. But I know it has many users, so other people may like it.

[discordian]

Do you know if Debian stable updates certain packages to a newer point release after the new version of Debian stable is already released?
For example, Debian 12 ships Gnome 43.4, but the latest point release is 43.5. Will it update to the newer point release or stay on 43.4?

There is the updates repository for that, backports for even newer versions and another one for security fixes.

[jstoik]

A thing I don't like one bit that I learned through the release notes (I think it was there) is that switching from GTK3 to GTK4 leads to a big loss of compatibility with screen readers like orca.

Yeah, this is mentioned here: https://www.debian.org/releases/book...screen-readers

Since it falls into upstream and I don't use GNOME, does anyone know if someone cares about that among the GTK devs? Whether there are plans to tackle it or alternatives?

The answer is Yes and No.

In short, GTK4 leaves programs like Orca partially blind to things like keyboard events. The situation improved in the release after the one shipping with Bookworm, but there are still gaps, and a lot of lengthy discussions about how and whether-or-not to address them in related services like Gnome's AT-SPI.

Similar to Wayland, some really basic shit will probably never come back due to conflicts with other priorities like security.

[Vermilion]

what's the point of using it when ubuntu LTS exists?

You might also ask, what's the point of Ubuntu LTS when Debian exists.. Considering Debian existed for longer, supports more architectures, and generally immune to irrational decisions caused by corporate greed.

[therealcyclist]

The power of stable debian is that you have lots of people using exactly the same software, so they are exposed to the same issues, solve them together and build upon that base. The more you move the base, the more the advantages fall apart.

I agree but debian only fix security issues. Users have to live with certain bugs. I'll give you an example: If you backup a systemd container with borgbackup in debian bullseye, systemd-machined crashes.

As far as I know this was and will never be fixed you have to switch to bookworm. Or build it yourself and then the all use the same programs is over.

[xAlt7x]

what's the point of using it when ubuntu LTS exists?

Nowadays users without Pro subscription receive packages with known vulnerabilities.
Yes, they come from the "Universe" but this repo is enabled by default. Also some popular server and desktop software depend on packages from there.

Examples of Ubuntu Pro exclusive security fixes for Ubuntu 22.04 LTS:

• USN-5736-1 (imagemagick)
• USN-5958-1 (ffmpeg)
• USN-5181-1 (jqueryui)
• USN-5620-1 (openexr)

[andyprough]

If you want another well supported non commercial generic distro that’s supported for a longish time you have to go the Red Hat route with Rocky, Alma etc.

It may not meet your definition of "well supported", but the last I heard Slackware still supports version 14.0 which came out almost 11 years ago.

[timofonic]

But on the downside there would be no Ubuntu without Debian.

Ubuntu sucks...

[ThiagoCMC]

Ubuntu rocks! I'm curious to see if LXD is finally available on Debian 12 as a nice .deb package (instead of SNAP): https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/lxd