Originally posted by Amano
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Ubuntu 22.04 LTS Release Candidate Images For Last Minute Testing
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Originally posted by Daktyl198 View PostThere's nothing wrong with the concept of snaps or flatpaks, the problem lies in the fact that neither of these specs are remotely stable or finished.
There's also AppImage, because of course there have to be at least 3 different versions of anything like this, because Not Invented Here; and there's also a 4th one that I can't remember the name of right now, and probably several more that never got any traction because they don't have corporate funding behind them, regardless of the tech involved.
> With snap and flatpak, we're having a Wayland situation where they're pushing it on us before it's fully developed, while simultaneously not making developing it their primary focus because it's usage is too low.
I'm not sure if the second half of that is really accurate, unless you're talking about nvidia specifically, but other than that, yeah. RedHat in particular has a LONG track record of doing that: PulseAudio wasn't even close to *beta* quality when they first started shipping it, and the same goes for systemd, GNOME3, and plenty more. Whether you think of that mindset as "cutting edge, yay!" or "garbage-tier code, dammit!" largely depends on whether the systems involved are toys to tinker with or important parts of your business / leisure resources. (Phoronix leans strongly to the hobbyist side, often making it unrepresentative of the bigger picture).
One of Ubuntu's big selling points is the combination of "stable" LTSs while still having support for new hardware, but with the most-used application on almost every desktop machine now pretty much guaranteed to suck I think they're shooting themselves in the foot pretty badly here. There are probably two "good" reasons for that though: above all else, desktop is just a tiny part of revenue; but I suspect there's also a large selection bias at work, where the snap developers just permanently have the browser open with 400 tabs in it (and are also running new high-end machines on top of that) - i.e. they effectively treat the browser as part of the boot-time cost. It's hard to see how they could consider the end result as acceptable otherwise, especially given how trivial it would be to fix snap's performance problems, even if the rest of it would still be poor.
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Originally posted by Paradigm Shifter View PostAnd as a "security measure" Microsoft made it so that (some?) games on the Windows Store are impossible to add to a 3rd party launcher (like Steam) so that (for example) I can't "Big Picture" Forza Horizon 4, or use a PS5 controller with it (PS5 controller works great in Steam, but otherwise Windows ignores it completely)...
UWP is the Windows-only framework/api/whatever you want to call it that allows for seamless development of apps that run across all of Microsoft's operating systems, but that is highly proprietary and very locked down... mostly due to the fact that it could be used as an attack vector for consoles otherwise.
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Originally posted by CochainComplex View Postas said multiple times - its nvidia not gnome nor wayland per se. Its crazy how often this blame shifting is repeated.
Wayland is ready - Nvidia is not.
Earlier this year was the first time I actually installed a Wayland setup (which still isn't default 10 years after it hit "stable") and felt like I had a smooth desktop experience. And there are still Wayland-only bugs for some applications like screenshot tools. On an AMD card. It's not Nvidia.
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Originally posted by arQon View PostThere's also AppImage, because of course there have to be at least 3 different versions of anything like this, because Not Invented Here; and there's also a 4th one that I can't remember the name of right now, and probably several more that never got any traction because they don't have corporate funding behind them, regardless of the tech involved.
Originally posted by arQon View PostI'm not sure if the second half of that is really accurate, unless you're talking about nvidia specifically, but other than that, yeah. RedHat in particular has a LONG track record of doing that: PulseAudio wasn't even close to *beta* quality when they first started shipping it, and the same goes for systemd, GNOME3, and plenty more. Whether you think of that mindset as "cutting edge, yay!" or "garbage-tier code, dammit!" largely depends on whether the systems involved are toys to tinker with or important parts of your business / leisure resources. (Phoronix leans strongly to the hobbyist side, often making it unrepresentative of the bigger picture).
I'm getting the same feeling with Snap/Flatpak, where the entire spec is half-assed and full of bugs and usability problems, but they're already pushing you to use it saying it's "ready".
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Originally posted by Daktyl198 View Post
You're mistaking MSIX packaging with the UWP API. MISX is a packaging format that supports both Win32 apps, and UWP apps. It's why you can now install Win32 apps via the Microsoft Store.
UWP is the Windows-only framework/api/whatever you want to call it that allows for seamless development of apps that run across all of Microsoft's operating systems, but that is highly proprietary and very locked down... mostly due to the fact that it could be used as an attack vector for consoles otherwise.
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