Ubuntu 20.10 Beta Released For Testing

[cynical]

Why not just build the library I to the application and not rely on external libraries? It is effectively the same thing and requires less overhead.

How is it less overhead to bundle the library with each application that needs it?

You also lose automatic updates for the libraries. Now applications will not necessarily update the library they depend on, leaving them vulnerable if an exploit is found. Updating a library once in one place to protect all applications that use it makes way more sense.

[Mez']

Snaps are shit and will remain so, while Flatpak will improve and take over it eventually.

Flatpaks are just as much shit as Snaps. I don't see any valid reason to discredit one for the other.
You either don't want that crap or you are indifferent to whichever you use.

[angrypie]

Flatpak specifically cannot replace snaps without the same type of fundamental redesign that Snaps did. Obviously, you think that desktop apps are the only types of software used on Linux systems, but they aren't.

Then why not restrict Snaps to servers and leave Flatpak for desktops?

[angrypie]

Flatpaks are just as much shit as Snaps. I don't see any valid reason to discredit one for the other.
You either don't want that crap or you are indifferent to whichever you use.

Who the fuck do you think you are to tell me what to want?

[Guest]

Is Wayland the default for 20.10 or are they still pushing Wayland back?
I really hope they've switched.
These double efforts in implementing something in Wayland and then backporting everything to X is ridicolous, especially when it's discontinued.(like the video acceleration in Firefox)

Unless they got the cursor on a separate thread or whatever the issue was, I don't know how anyone uses GNOME on Wayland. I last tried it on Fedora 32, and any high CPU usage (either spike or sustained) would cause the cursor to lag; was like some software cursor thing that I haven't seen for years. If I recall the bug report for this, it'll be fixed with GNOME 4.

On top of that:

• Creating a custom resolution is relatively easy with Xorg with a xorg.conf snippet. Doing it on Wayland was tricky, and in my case, I needed a 4K@60Hz CVT-RB resolution, which I had to find a boot option to make, and even then, I had to do some odd thing with the refresh rate (had to specify 59Hz in the boot option because if I did 60, it wouldn't override it on GNOME; and my display doesn't seem to fully support a flat 59Hz rate).
• KeePassXC can't auto-type, at least on Fedora 32 and openSUSE TW with GNOME on Wayland. I mainly use it to log-in to a game.
• Can't reload the session easily on GNOME on Wayland; someone mentioned it above where how it's easy to just do Alt + R -> r on Xorg, but you have to log out and back in if you want to do it on your own terms on Wayland

[Mez']

Who the fuck do you think you are to tell me what to want?

And who the fuck do you think you are to say snaps are shit?

I like people to think for themselves and I'm not going to tell you what to want, of course. You are entitled to your opinion (not to make it a false truth).

But I have a really hard time understanding how can one denigrate snap and support flatpaks or the other way around, since they're basically the same thing. It's like saying I like the taste of meatballs but not of burger patties... Hello, po-tah-to, po-tay-to.
I'm not going to let haters hate for no serious reason.

[Mez']

Unless they got the cursor on a separate thread or whatever the issue was, I don't know how anyone uses GNOME on Wayland. I last tried it on Fedora 32, and any high CPU usage (either spike or sustained) would cause the cursor to lag; was like some software cursor thing that I haven't seen for years. If I recall the bug report for this, it'll be fixed with GNOME 4.

On top of that:

• Creating a custom resolution is relatively easy with Xorg with a xorg.conf snippet. Doing it on Wayland was tricky, and in my case, I needed a 4K@60Hz CVT-RB resolution, which I had to find a boot option to make, and even then, I had to do some odd thing with the refresh rate (had to specify 59Hz in the boot option because if I did 60, it wouldn't override it on GNOME; and my display doesn't seem to fully support a flat 59Hz rate).
• KeePassXC can't auto-type, at least on Fedora 32 and openSUSE TW with GNOME on Wayland. I mainly use it to log-in to a game.
• Can't reload the session easily on GNOME on Wayland; someone mentioned it above where how it's easy to just do Alt + R -> r on Xorg, but you have to log out and back in if you want to do it on your own terms on Wayland

I obviously agree with you on wayland.

• Enabling the wayland session is also causing an issue with GDM and it triggers a dead double cursor in the Xorg session
• Videos are playing accelerated in 4k60Hz with distorted voice, works perfectly in Xorg or even in wayland with 4k30
• Unite extension doesn't work properly with wayland (some might say it's a unite issue, but the fact is it works with Xorg and is broken in wayland)

I'll stop there, I could list 10 more but I have better things planned for the afternoon.

Now, regarding CVT Vs the "video" kernel boot parameter, it's basically as constraining, since you also need a separate file where you add custom xrandr modelines and other commands to make it persistent in Xorg. Plus, for me the cvt command didn't work out (the extracted modeline), and I had to use a generic modeline from the internet instead. So you basically spend as much time on wayland or Xorg to get that damn 4k60 working.

[DanL]

So another release with significant contributions from Canonical’s desktop team.

Canonical contributed to Ubuntu? Wow!

[vsteel]

.

Edit: and FAH control for Folding@home was broken too.

It is broken for almost everyone because FAH control is built on old python2 libraries. Go read the FAH forums and you will get the work around.

[jo-erlend]

Then why not restrict Snaps to servers and leave Flatpak for desktops?

The question is why you would want to artificially prohibit certain types of software in a Free Software community. I mean, there's no reason you couldn't restrict RPMs to servers and leave Debs to desktop stuff – or vice versa – but nobody have ever proposed that, because of reasons that seem so obvious to me that I don't really understand your question.

Snaps are working well. There's no reason to restrict them that way. It would only make the system unnecessarily complex and there's absolutely nothing to gain.

There's no inherent conflict between FlatPak and Snap. Why try to impose one? This is not Debian vs RPM, you know. Snaps and FlatPaks can be used side by side with no issues at all. Instead of trying to bully people into change their tastes, I would prefer to create common runtimes for apps, so that you could have more cross-distro collaboration and attract more users to app communities. If we could get Canonical and Red Hat to collaborate, we could have a Gnome LTS, for instance and we could have apps targeting that release through any package system.

I don't understand why everything has to be war all the time.