Chrome OS Is Working To Remove The Last Of Its X11 Dependencies

[stephen82]

Unless I'm mistaken, it has permissive opensource license (BSD/Apache/whatever), does it make sense to license it?

Yes, but I have mentioned a hint-word: manufacturers. Let's consider an example from another Alphabet's subsidiary company, named Nest.

This is a quote from Wikipedia link about "Nest Labs":

The operating system itself is based on Linux 2.6.37 and many other free software components.^[23] To comply with the terms of the GPLv3 license under which some components are available, Nest Labs also provides a special firmware image which will unlock the system so that it will accept unsigned firmware images. While the thermostat software by Nest Labs itself remains proprietary, a third party has reimplemented the basic logic in an open source replacement called FreeAbode.

Clearly, this quotation confirms my hypothesis as of why they chose having their own system designed.

Also, as of licensing, more "permissive" licenses like MIT, 3-clause BSD, and Apache 2.0 give the right to companies to use such programs without reciprocating any changes back in the original code base, let alone tweaking it according their own hardware specs, thus means it would be their perpetual right to implement their own versions of firmware assuming they have acquired the proper license from the original company that sold them the devices in the first place, that is Alphabet or any other subsidiary.

In Nest's case, I can easily predict that they will get rid of Linux and replace it with Fuchsia so it can let them sync their peripherals with their ChromeOS and their Fuchsia mobile phones that would let them seamlessly switch from one device to another.

So, is this the end of Android? As we know it, I would say yes, but until that time would come, they have to saturate the market first, prove to people that Fuchsia is way better and safer than Android, and then kill it silently.

An assumption would be they know far too many vulnerabilities inside JVM and in Java's SDK as a whole, but they are not addressing it in public until Fuchsia becomes stable enough so they can attack it via the assistance of security researchers and prove their point in the first place.

Is it a hit under the belt? Definitely.

Is it ethical? What can you expect from a company that went from "Don't be evil" to "such those bastards' blood"?

Is it possible, let alone plausible? Well...you are smart people, figure that out yourselves lol.

[starshipeleven]

Let's consider an example from another Alphabet's subsidiary company, named Nest.

This is a quote from Wikipedia link about "Nest Labs":

Clearly, this quotation confirms my hypothesis as of why they chose having their own system designed.

It's the opposite.
GPL does not require them to unlock the hardware by allowing it to boot unsigned kernel images.
They could have provided sources and that's where their obligation ends. GPL does not grant you access to proprietary hardware.

I take that as a sign of good will, Google's stuff has traditionally been tinkerer-friendly even if they didn't need to.

Also lol at the kernel version. That's embedded world for you, and hopefully something they can change with Fuchsia. Not that it matters much with that device anyway.

Also, as of licensing, more "permissive" licenses like MIT, 3-clause BSD, and Apache 2.0 give the right to companies to use such programs without reciprocating any changes back in the original code base, let alone tweaking it according their own hardware specs, thus means it would be their perpetual right to implement their own versions of firmware assuming they have acquired the proper license from the original company that sold them the devices in the first place, that is Alphabet or any other subsidiary.

Can I repeat that permissive licenses allow me to clone stuff whole without asking for any license for doing so (as long as I follow rules set by the current license)?
The only thing they can license is the trademark IF it is not open itself (Android name and logo is open), plus closed source/patented stuff like codecs and other bits for DRM and other such crap that is needed in a consumer product.

I was wondering what is the arrangement they have with OEMs so that they don't fuck with ChromeOS and Google deals with its updates. I assume it is trademark and some proprietary components like codecs, widevine and flash that are crucial for its end-user.
Because there are for example forks of ChromiumOS that work fine like Neverware, but they can't provide those features to paying customers, only to home (free) users. And of course only Chromebooks/box/whatever have the proper ChromeOS.

So, is this the end of Android? As we know it, I would say yes, but until that time would come, they have to saturate the market first, prove to people that Fuchsia is way better and safer than Android, and then kill it silently.

Well, they are Android's upstream. Other companies do contribute but it's not anywhere near enough to run the show. If they were MS-like cartoon evil they could simply stop making new Android versions or slow down its development significantly (ala Win7 during Win8 days) or whatever and everyone else would have to adapt. But I doubt this will be the future.

Anyway, considering Google's standard strategy (providing multiple competing systems so they can have more baskets for their eggs and adjust more easily to changes in demand), I think they are going to let Android and Fuchsia live together for a long while and maybe never drop Android unless the circumstances really require it.

Technically speaking, the apps running on Fuchsia are cross-platform and will run in Android and iOS too as they are written with Flutter SDK (again from Google), I suppose that they would probably push it and when there are enough apps that it makes sense doing so they will start licensing Fuchsia to OEMs, or making their flagships with it.

Meanwhile all their embedded stuff can be moved to Fuchsia right away, of course. But who cares about embedded stuff anyway. It's not like I can't do the same or plain fucking better with a random 20$ embedded device supported by LEDE/OpenWRT.

Also lol at "prove to people", people don't give a fuck about that and even if they did they have no power. Those that need to be convinced are OEMs (Samsung et al). Especially Samsung as if they pull the rug too fast Samsung might really try to switch to Tizien (Zod I'd laugh for weeks at the clusterfuck that this would cause).

An assumption would be they know far too many vulnerabilities inside JVM and in Java's SDK as a whole, but they are not addressing it in public until Fuchsia becomes stable enough so they can attack it via the assistance of security researchers and prove their point in the first place.

Proving the point to who? People that don't know what is JVM? OEMs that already show they don't care about security by not pushing updates?

It's also bad PR for themselves too as everyone knows Android is their pet project.

Sooo.... it's a NOPE. Makes no sense.

Is it ethical? What can you expect from a company that went from "Don't be evil" to "such those bastards' blood"?

You are confusing Google with Microsoft here. Google is much smarter and much less evil. I would welcome them as new benevolent overlords any day over Microsoft.

Is it possible, let alone plausible?

Nope, and nope again.

[GizmoChicken]

I was wondering what is the arrangement [Google] have with OEMs so that [the OEMs] don't fuck with ChromeOS and Google deals with its updates. I assume it is trademark and some proprietary components like codecs, widevine and flash that are crucial for its end-user.

That's my understanding of how Google retains control over ChromeOS. I hope someone will chime in (hopefully with a link) and let us know if we're wrong.

[pal666]

This makes me wonder: What did Google do differently with SurfaceFlinger back in 2009, compared to the devs behind Wayland and Mir, to complete what the others so far have failed to do. Ie replace the X11 display server.

nothing. android never had x11. android has java api

[pal666]

[*]They designed Go language so they can handle more traffic using less resources, thus taking advantage of all their data centers doing more work with less hardware.

go is faster python, datacenters run c++

[*]They have designed their own operating system, codenamed Fuchsia, with its own UI as we have seen a couple of days ago with the only logical explanation to

• get rid of Java and JVM in the long term, so they can have full control of the code and raise the middle finger to Oracle
• relicense it to manufacturers that are going to sell IoT and smart phone devices
• take advantage of actual hardware by reaching the actual low-level interface via their new kernel and perform more while maintaining more or less the same resources they originally asked for from Android devices; JVM platform is a beast comparing it with Fuchsia OS.

that operating system is a kernel, so it has nothing to do with jvm, it is a replacement for linux.

I could point at a few more things, but I leave that to you as a food for thought.

So, to conclude, what can it be their excuse behind this radical set of decision changing? Control, both physical and intellectual.

That is my own opinion though and I could be wrong.

you was wrong from the start

[pal666]

So, is this the end of Android?

only if you live in an imaginary world where fuchsia has drivers for any arm soc

[Azrael5]

good news

[GreatEmerald]

Nice. Does this also transfer to ChromiumOS automatically?

[nanonyme]

I just wish we get Chrome with native Wayland support soon

[starshipeleven]

Nice. Does this also transfer to ChromiumOS automatically?

This commit is on ChromiumOS codebase (as stated also in the article). ChromiumOS is the upstream of ChromeOS, it's not downstream or a fork, most development happens there.