KDE Plasma 5.9 Hits The Web With Global Menus, Better Wayland Support

[liam]

[*]They have a UX team that actually knows UX, and doesn't make it worse with every release

No, they really don't know "UX". The "UX" team, especially the core, are made up of graphic designers (graphic designers can have a good amount of experience with UX, but they aren't experts and Day hasn't indicated he has a good feel for UX -- though he certainly has gotten better) or coders.


[QUOTE][*]They have more than one people working on Wayland stuff, and things are actually usable compared to with KDE[*]They rarely break functionality and features just because "lol, I felt like it" and they are in general a lot nicer to work with[*]The toolkit (GTK) is actually built for their needs, they are not a niche product using it, which is neither tested nor supported

[/QUOTE]

Gtk is pretty much as niche a tk as you'll find. Ignoring apps that are deployed using web tech, most apps are built using winforms/wpf or cocoa. Cross platform apps, again, ignoring apps using something like electron, typically use qt or a custom solution (frankly, I'm not sure how many of the later still exist).
Imho, gtk is best served by following systemd's lead: link itself to linuxisms. That may be a bit ambiguous so let me rephrase: gtk should avoid platform abstraction when possible, and target features unique to Linux.
So, that aside, gnome has been getting better. I really hope to see some serious thought by GNOME for the 4.0 break as to which audience it makes most sense to target.
I'd love to see much more integration with web services. Try to find a nice, maintainable solution to getting those various services to be SOMEWHAT portable, so their data can be manipulated a bit more freely.

[liam]

Mh, I might, if only git logs and mailing lists would be public.
Oh, wait, nevermind, they are.

Wait, has GNOME started allowing people to log their design team irc? If so, that's great, since the decisions are largely made in those channels (and conferences, ofc) and not mailing lists or bug reports.

[polarathene]

1. In a normal computer, I need to press Start and navigate with my mouse until I reach the "All applications" button to see all apps installed, so, it's a nightmare. In my convertible, I swipe from the right and access is instant. So, the full screen menu that is a liability everywhere else, here is a blessing.

You can use one of the alternative launchers, they have a dashboard one which shouold be more mobile/touchscreen friendly. You could then trigger this via the start button or a large desktop widget/button I guess. There is a plasma widget that you can size/position to whatever is comfortable for you on the desktop and have access immediately by viewing your desktop(could be on another virtual desktop that doesn't have any windows, or just use a show desktop button/action if you like). I'm not sure about swiping but assume it would be like triggering with mouse hot corners/edges which should be easy to get triggering the dashboard launcher as well.

2. The disjointed GNOME notification experience is not an issue when you can swipe from the edge and get what you want quickly.

Sorry I don't quite follow, what exactly is the issue and what do you get from swiping the edge that KDE doesn't do?

3. Those massive title bars become suddenly useful when you have a touchscreen close; you can drag them and move windows easily.

So enlarge the title bars in KDE? Many apps in KDE allow you to drag from other empty areas on the window not just the title bar to reposition as well.

4. You can navigate between virtual desktops with a four finger gesture.

Should be doable with KDE provided the gesture is recognized, sounds like a nice feature for touchscreen/touchpad users.

5. GNOME can recognize the gyroscope built into my convertible laptop, and can use it to rotate the screen automagically, even in Wayland.

No idea with KDE, I'd hope it could as that'd be rather basic expectation on mobile devices, perhaps Plasma Mobile does it?

6. GTK recognizes well finger gestures, Qt not so much (at least in a non-Wayland environment, from my testing).

I think touch got improved with the just released 5.9 Plasma, so this may be better now.

[darclide]

[Loads of crap]

As you either seem to not have read the thread (which I can't blame you for, I wouldn't read a praise-KDE-thread either if I didn't have valid complains) or you have a rather poor reading comprehension, thus I will keep this brief to not waste too much of my time:

Aside the examples of bad UX I gave in this very thread, e.g. the scroll bar issues, let's give you some more, then.
Inconsistency is all over the place, especially in QML versus non-QML. You have long-mouse-press functionality (which was intended for touch screen devices, but for god-knows-why it was kept for desktop systems) in plasma that you have nowhere else, scrolling behaves different (smooth versus lines) despite being configured differently by the user in QML applications ...
More inconsistency when it comes to icons: depending on the size of them, icons in file choosers (both Qt and KDE ones) you suddenly get monochrome ones instead of coloured ones, even though monochrome should be reserved for actions.
Systemsetting5 is a huge UX mess. You have prominently placed categories with only one checkbox that doesn't make sense to end users, you have options (e.g. the name and domain for CIFS) that regular users have no idea what they do where they expect network settings. In addition to that, official kcm modules look and behave different from each other. Just compare e.g. the font one versus the printer one. The list goes on and on and on, in general it just feels like an uncoordinated, unfinished product, whilst in GNOME everything is nicely integrated.

Your point on Qt not being made and tested for KDE: you might want to read the thread again (yeah, it hurts, sorry), you will see that it wasn't me who originally brought up the point and arguments, I just agreed with them. (Hilarious though: the person who brought it up was promptly attacked by a KDE developer, who could have as well addressed the valid points. I guess that's less fun than debates on a personal level)

As far as extensions go: I never wrote that KDE doesn't have any, just that GNOME has some to cover what some people consider a lack of functionality in GNOME compared to KDE.

The rest of your points are biased, personal experiences and views, these are of course not debatable, thus I rather bring up facts and examples.

[Cyber Killer]

I feel you. Especially considering the thousands of hours Gnome puts into making Qt applications indistinguishable from GTK applications. Or how Gnome has a wizard holding your hand for every setting you want to change. This Plasma thing is an absolute insult to users.
/s

AFAIR it's the other way around - it's Qt devs who is making effort to make Qt apps look good on GTK desktops (and all other desktops also). GTK devs don't care about how their apps look on Qt desktops, so this is how it ends up.

[theghost]

Yeah, it is called living a narrative. It is the abyss where a bias evolves to relativism. Maintaining software is incredible hard and put a large strain on the managerial skill of gatekeeping. You have to say no to idiots and scope creep, every f...ing day. Gnome is fairly successful, KDE fails at every level.

Look how KDE is in no control of the toolkit API.
Look how KDE is compromising its bad design with 100 layers of configurism.
Look how KDE get an ever worse developer/LOC ratio.
Look how KDE get an ever worse junior/senior developer ratio.
Look how KDE does not contribute on crossdesktop API work.
Look how KDE´s UX team is just a blog.
Look how KDE´s QA team is just a void.

Yet some people think KDE is sustainable and credible. Well it is not. It is just a failed experiment, and the code can´t be trusted.

Oh and do you know why Lennart and Linus are so prolific? Because they have excellent managerial skills of gatekeeping. They are brutally honest and blatant like zeros and ones. Bad code are put down to stay down. Desktop Linux need someone to tell the truth on the failed KDE.

What's wrong with you? Just use your DE which works best for you, no need to hate.
KDE is developed for free by a lot of community developers who develop in their spare time.
Also, KDE has a certain influence on Qt's API.
In contrast to Gnome, where you can configure nothing or configuration is hidden behind a Windows-like registry, I prefer having a lot of configuration options directly from system settings.
Please bring up evidences for your two ratio claims.
KDE does contribute and respects the freedesktop specs: https://dot.kde.org/2014/04/21/freed...it-2014-report
KDE's UX team is no blog, a lot of happens here: https://forum.kde.org/viewforum.php?...0f1572d6fc3b94
If you think that KDE's QA efforts and team are too small, maybe you can contribute with your wisdom: https://community.kde.org/Get_Involved/Quality

Oh and do you know why Linus switched from Gtk to Qt for Subsurface and is pretty happy about it?

[rtfazeberdee]

Griffin is a 12 year gnome troll who comes out to play when playschool is over and he's finished eating his playdough

[t.s.]

AFAIR it's the other way around - it's Qt devs who is making effort to make Qt apps look good on GTK desktops (and all other desktops also). GTK devs don't care about how their apps look on Qt desktops, so this is how it ends up.

It's called sarcasm.

[cygn]

instructive read:

https://budgie-desktop.org/2017/01/25/kicking-off-budgie-11/

[geearf]

So I was really excited about the mute thing in the taskbar, but it does not work for wine (at least in a virtual desktop) nor mpv in konsole (audio only, with video mpv gets its window and it works). Sad :/