GIMP 2.7.2 Arrives, But Still Far From Belated GIMP 2.8

[XorEaxEax]

I'm impressed by what the guys have built, and done so for no cost to the community. I should've done it long ago but I've just donated US$20 to the guys. I've never noticed the "Donate" button of the web site before.

So should I, it's funny that I've donated twice to Blender, and though I love playing with Blender (particularly 3d sculpting) I must say that I've had much more use of both Gimp and Inkscape.

[yotambien]

btw, gimp isn't used for educational purposes because its constantly under development, its missing features, it lacks dedication, theres no reliable support (a HUGE downside to most community based applications), and its not considered a professional tool. in the professional world, you don't use incomplete, unstable, hobbyist software - you pay for the good stuff.

I don't see what would be wrong with using Gimp at schools.

I'm not sure what the social climates like where you are but here in Australia that splash screen alone would render it inappropriate for use in the school system here.

The context of my reply was that set by schmidtbag, i.e., the technical merits or faults of Gimp. In that context, I think this software is good for educational or personal use (despite its interface).

I'm not sure why the splash screen is seen as offensive. To me it is stupid because it bears no relation whatsoever with the product, but offensive? Offensive to whom? To people who don't like to be reminded of the existence of BDSM? I'm not saying it can't possibly be offensive, I'm asking genuinely.

As for the name, I remember one supervisor of mine making a funny face the first time I mentioned the program. Later on he used it and talked about it normally. I can't really say, I'm not a native english speaker. But I just can't believe Gimp isn't more widely used because of its name. Take Photoshop piracy out of the equation and we can start talking about this sort of minutiae.

[mugginz]

The context of my reply was that set by schmidtbag, i.e., the technical merits or faults of Gimp. In that context, I think this software is good for educational or personal use (despite its interface).

I actually don't mind its interface and agree with you that the software itself would be appropriate. I'm all for teach the technique, not necessarily the specific tool (such as only photoshop).

I'm not sure why the splash screen is seen as offensive. To me it is stupid because it bears no relation whatsoever with the product, but offensive? Offensive to whom? To people who don't like to be reminded of the existence of BDSM? I'm not saying it can't possibly be offensive, I'm asking genuinely.

The second there was a whiff of inappropriateness in the air it'd get canned. Of the thousands of teachers it'd only take one to raise the issue and off it'd go. Some people can be mighty sensitive. Probably too sensitive.

As for the name, I remember one supervisor of mine making a funny face the first time I mentioned the program. Later on he used it and talked about it normally. I can't really say, I'm not a native english speaker. But I just can't believe Gimp isn't more widely used because of its name. Take Photoshop piracy out of the equation and we can start talking about this sort of minutiae.

I don't think the name is the biggest of the reasons it doesn't get used more, but my position is that it's foolish to hamstring the package even if it's only by a bit. The biggest reason will be "network effects" such as the "all the other people here use Photoshop, so so will I" type mentality, along with media format inter-operation type issues amongst others.

From what uses I see people put paint programs to, most of the time I'd say even The Gimp would be more than they need yet they still call for Photoshop.

[schmidtbag]

Please, explain.



LOLWHAT



I don't see what would be wrong with using Gimp at schools.

i worded that first sentence poorly. what i meant to say is it is very human and normal to feel pain, sadness, or any kind of hurt feelings when someone is killed for a "reason" that doesn't reflect the entirety of that person, such as race or ethnicity. people would be far less offended if someone were killed because of a terrible crime he/she committed.

if you don't live in these countries and if you're a hardcore liberal you probably have no clue what is going on. but our rights are being taken away one by one, the middle and upper-middle class are being heavily taxed, the poor are given whatever they desire, and the rich are generally unaffected. also, jobs are turning into "lets make this the most diverse friendly environment possible" instead of the original "lets make this the most efficient and reliable environment possible". every time i go to work i turn on the news on the radio and hear some new law prohibiting something, or someone being arrested because of who they are. the cause is people who just don't learn to accept anything slightly offensive to their culture.

in a highschool or middle school, sure gimp is fine. i'd recommend it for that. but if you're at a college majoring in art, you don't want to learn stuff that could be obsolete next year. you don't want to learn on non-professional tools if you are looking to become a professional artist. i like gimp, but its not worthy of a professional replacement. openoffice is the same way, although that is inching very close toward being adequate.

[curaga]

FWIW, Gimp is already used in schools around here.

[Suzuran]

if you don't live in these countries and if you're a hardcore liberal you probably have no clue what is going on. but our rights are being taken away one by one, the middle and upper-middle class are being heavily taxed, the poor are given whatever they desire, and the rich are generally unaffected. also, jobs are turning into "lets make this the most diverse friendly environment possible" instead of the original "lets make this the most efficient and reliable environment possible". every time i go to work i turn on the news on the radio and hear some new law prohibiting something, or someone being arrested because of who they are. the cause is people who just don't learn to accept anything slightly offensive to their culture.

That was incredibly silly! We should probably just stick to talking about software ^____^

I admit that the only times I've hear the term "gimp" in a sexual context have been Pulp Fiction references, but the fact that the Gimp developers make blatant references to it (this splash screen, use of "bring out the Gimp" in official documents) means they deserve no sympathy when people don't take their software seriously.

I do, however, hear "gimp" used on a fairly regular basis to refer to something crippled. There's nothing wrong with a program's name having another meaning, but this is a particularly unfortunate one. Who would want to use a crippled computer program?

[devius]

From what uses I see people put paint programs to, most of the time I'd say even The Gimp would be more than they need yet they still call for Photoshop.

Exactly. I know a few people who just use the clone and lasso tools and the contrast/brightness adjustments (and maybe a few other basic controls) and still insist on using (pirated) photoshop. If people around the world actually had to pay for the comercial software they use, the software landscape would be something much different than it is today.

[ryanpg]

Comments are all over the map - and that's the point.

• I pointed out the splash screen to refute the silly idea that the developers of gimp were unaware of the foolish connotation the name presents
• many people will not be offended by a juvenile or suggestive name/word - many will
• there's little risk of bringing about "socialism" by choosing not to engage in offensive or hurtful language
• there's some risk in losing community support, losing user base, and generally not being taken seriously - when one chooses a juvenile, stupid, or offensive name for one's project
• many people will chose not to participate in, or use something that is offensive, or that they feel makes them look or sound stupid

The above seem to be pretty self-evident points. (That said, I'm sure some will disagree.) It's hard to imagine users being offended by a project NOT having an offensive name. If your goal is to produce a product that will be embraced professionally or by the widest audience possible, you'll want to avoid being offensive, juvenile, puerile or just stupid sounding. This is why, when Apple became involved, gimp-print was immediately renamed to "gutenprint." Apple a for-profit company, saw the same problem I and many other grown-ups do; gimp is a stupid and potentially offensive name.

I teach at a school for kids with disabilities. There's no way I can use the gimp in our setting - simply because of the juvenile, offensive name (and also because of splash screens that display inappropriate images, including prior screens that displayed drug references). Yes, I know, some of you who don't work, or don't have kids, or don't care, will point out how overly sensitive the kids, parents, teachers, therapists, administrators, and other stakeholders are. Some will scoff at how "lame" professional graphics studios would be, by choosing not to use gimp, simply because they may offend clients.

Great, fine; we're all overly sensitive puritans. We're also potential users, advocates, supporters and developers. Why be pig-headed and without reason alienate us? I dare someone to try to make this a free speech issue. No one's saying the developer's cant keep the offensive name - we're just saying it's stupid to do so.

As an advocate of Open Source software, I would LOVE to see a great graphics program take hold and challenge established commercial applications. It's just really disappointing to know that this will never happen in the case of gimp. I'm glad this discussion happened, and thanks for everyone who participated. Those who review the conversation will be able to route out the intelligent parts, and hopefully will be encouraged to engage in the debate more broadly. If enough sensible people make their feelings known, maybe, not likely, but maybe there could be a change in the name of the software - or more possibly a well-funded fork.

[schmidtbag]

• I pointed out the splash screen to refute the silly idea that the developers of gimp were unaware of the foolish connotation the name presents
• many people will not be offended by a juvenile or suggestive name/word - many will
• there's little risk of bringing about "socialism" by choosing not to engage in offensive or hurtful language
• there's some risk in losing community support, losing user base, and generally not being taken seriously - when one chooses a juvenile, stupid, or offensive name for one's project
• many people will chose not to participate in, or use something that is offensive, or that they feel makes them look or sound stupid

The above seem to be pretty self-evident points. (That said, I'm sure some will disagree.) It's hard to imagine users being offended by a project NOT having an offensive name. If your goal is to produce a product that will be embraced professionally or by the widest audience possible, you'll want to avoid being offensive, juvenile, puerile or just stupid sounding. This is why, when Apple became involved, gimp-print was immediately renamed to "gutenprint." Apple a for-profit company, saw the same problem I and many other grown-ups do; gimp is a stupid and potentially offensive name.

the points you bring up here are valid, BUT, you keep forgetting that the original term of gimp is not offensive and the developers used the name as an acronym. i would have to agree that with gimp 2.7, they really screwed up with the loading screen. i personally don't find it offensive but i understand how it could be. but, you need to think of gimp like the game S.T.A.L.K.E.R.. you aren't literally a stalker, its just an acronym.
you are obligated to your own opinion; you have a right to it and a right to defend it. you can choose not to use gimp, which you made apparent that you don't. but, its not right to request a change in something that is opinionated and not controversial. the definition of gimp you are referring to is simply a description of a vocation/occupation. its just simply a bad/negative word. kind of like "kill". kill is a bad and negative word but its not necessary offensive. if gimp were named something with a notoriously insulting word such as "whore" or "spic" then those developers need to do more than just change the name. but i have never heard the word "gimp" used in a negative manner. i've heard it be used for the "offensive" terminology, but not as an insult.

however, i would definitely have to agree that if gimp is to become a professional program and one to be taken seriously, then the name does need change. it's not because the name potentially offensive, but because the derogatory definition of gimp is extremely unprofessional in general.

I teach at a school for kids with disabilities. There's no way I can use the gimp in our setting - simply because of the juvenile, offensive name (and also because of splash screens that display inappropriate images, including prior screens that displayed drug references). Yes, I know, some of you who don't work, or don't have kids, or don't care, will point out how overly sensitive the kids, parents, teachers, therapists, administrators, and other stakeholders are. Some will scoff at how "lame" professional graphics studios would be, by choosing not to use gimp, simply because they may offend clients.

i teach at a school with kids who have emotional and psychological problems. its all about context. most of them probably wouldn't know what a gimp (of any definition) is. if some of them do, they'd probably just snicker about it - thats how kids are. for the ones who know what the derogatory definition is and don't find it funny, you can explain to them that it isn't the original definition, and has no relevance to the functionality of the program itself. again, the term is controversially insulting.

Great, fine; we're all overly sensitive puritans. We're also potential users, advocates, supporters and developers. Why be pig-headed and without reason alienate us? I dare someone to try to make this a free speech issue. No one's saying the developer's cant keep the offensive name - we're just saying it's stupid to do so.

like stated before, you have a right to your opinion, and in terms of being professional, i agree that gimp is not the best choice of a name. but considering the functionality of gimp is not up to professional standards, as of right now that comment really just sounds like a whiny complaint.

As an advocate of Open Source software, I would LOVE to see a great graphics program take hold and challenge established commercial applications. It's just really disappointing to know that this will never happen in the case of gimp. I'm glad this discussion happened, and thanks for everyone who participated. Those who review the conversation will be able to route out the intelligent parts, and hopefully will be encouraged to engage in the debate more broadly. If enough sensible people make their feelings known, maybe, not likely, but maybe there could be a change in the name of the software - or more possibly a well-funded fork.

i completely agree, and i am very disappointed with the progress of gimp. i'm aware there are very few developers but seriously why doesn't someone (preferably a company) take initiative with it? if a company took control of it they should do to gimp as they did with openoffice to libre office - change the name, focus more toward professional standards, and work diligently on the blatant problems.

[yotambien]

if you don't live in these countries and if you're a hardcore liberal you probably have no clue what is going on. but our rights are being taken away one by one, the middle and upper-middle class are being heavily taxed, the poor are given whatever they desire, and the rich are generally unaffected. also, jobs are turning into "lets make this the most diverse friendly environment possible" instead of the original "lets make this the most efficient and reliable environment possible". every time i go to work i turn on the news on the radio and hear some new law prohibiting something, or someone being arrested because of who they are. the cause is people who just don't learn to accept anything slightly offensive to their culture.

That's simply obscene, especially in the current economical climate. You are lost politically.

in a highschool or middle school, sure gimp is fine. i'd recommend it for that. but if you're at a college majoring in art, you don't want to learn stuff that could be obsolete next year. you don't want to learn on non-professional tools if you are looking to become a professional artist. i like gimp, but its not worthy of a professional replacement. openoffice is the same way, although that is inching very close toward being adequate.

Yep, I guess.