GNOME Developers Continue Tweaking The Shell, Tuning For Performance

[You-]

My guess is it will be merged in Gnome 47, because Red Hat didn't want it in RHEL 10, which will use Gnome 46.

That's a crazy conspiracy. Red Hat *preventing* their own OS from being competitive?

Do you imagine some Red Hat Executive in some dungeon layer somewhere hatching an evil plan to compete against their competitors by making their product worse?

There are a couple of other features that Red Hat has invested in heavily for the past 2/3 years which also didn't make it into gnome 46. Do you think that is also their dastardly plan to only get those features ready in time to be used by competitors and not themselves for many years to come?

[twelvedogs]

I find it funny how GNOME is rethinking that whole "No system tray" stance. Go figure that a graphical interface needs a place to stash long running programs and programs that act as graphical daemons.

they never had a no system tray stance, they just didn't care about it and no one wanted to deal with it and since there's an extension for those who wanted a system tray what was the rush?

shockingly open source devs tend to focus on the stuff they care about.

[hf_139]

If you don't like and have no interest in ever using it, why would you care about it?

I personally care because i DID use it and i DID witness people putting lots of work into merge requests that are then ignored by RedHat GNOME developers. Not commented, but simply ignored. Many people wasted their time, thinking that GNOME would be a community project and then realize that it's not. The issue tracker is just for show. Ebassie himself said on mastodon that he would prefer the Apple approach of having a public facing tracker that is only for the plebs to rant and having a second private internal tracker for corporate work.

This is the largest issue i have with them. That they are wasting the time of people who would like to contribute. Those people could have used their time to contribute to a different FOSS project instead. But how would they know?

GNOME is a trap that is actively harming the whole FOSS community. Many people, including Linux Torvalds himself, fell into that trap at some point. We all would be better off if they would simply not exist.

[hf_139]

That's a crazy conspiracy. Red Hat *preventing* their own OS from being competitive?

Do you imagine some Red Hat Executive in some dungeon layer somewhere hatching an evil plan to compete against their competitors by making their product worse?

There are a couple of other features that Red Hat has invested in heavily for the past 2/3 years which also didn't make it into gnome 46. Do you think that is also their dastardly plan to only get those features ready in time to be used by competitors and not themselves for many years to come?

VRR merge request has been open since March 2020. Four years.
It is ready for at least three years now. With no changes in those years besides rebasing.

So the only reason why GNOME doesn't have VRR for years already, IS because the RedHat GNOME devs who run the project simply didn't want to merge it yet. With no reason given. They just didn't want to.

[mrg666]

I personally care because i DID use it and i DID witness people putting lots of work into merge requests that are then ignored by RedHat GNOME developers. Not commented, but simply ignored. Many people wasted their time, thinking that GNOME would be a community project and then realize that it's not. The issue tracker is just for show. Ebassie himself said on mastodon that he would prefer the Apple approach of having a public facing tracker that is only for the plebs to rant and having a second private internal tracker for corporate work.

This is the largest issue i have with them. That they are wasting the time of people who would like to contribute. Those people could have used their time to contribute to a different FOSS project instead. But how would they know?

GNOME is a trap that is actively harming the whole FOSS community. Many people, including Linux Torvalds himself, fell into that trap at some point. We all would be better off if they would simply not exist.

Gnome is an open source project. There is absolutely no obligation for the project to accept all contributions or include everybody in the team. Thankfully, the Gnome project is selective/careful about the contributions.

Like it or not, there is a plan and vision in place. Apparently, you don't like it and I am not sure why are so passionate about your dislikes. Don't explain please.

If people are passionate about their own contributions, they are free to fork the repo and go their own way. Why don't you fork it, and modify it as you wish? Let's see if you are better at coding than asserting.

[blackiwid]

This is the largest issue i have with them. That they are wasting the time of people who would like to contribute. Those people could have used their time to contribute to a different FOSS project instead. But how would they know?

GNOME is a trap that is actively harming the whole FOSS community. Many people, including Linux Torvalds himself, fell into that trap at some point. We all would be better off if they would simply not exist.

1. I am sure if you report a real bug that causes crashs that everybody agree that it's a bug they will be thankful openly or internally to have been noticed about it. So if one of their devs said something polemically or general that doesn't mean that in some cases it would still be useful if it never leads to anything why have it at all? Why not close it down? So no you cherry picked one statement of 1 person and gone wild with it.

2. soso Linus fell into the trap of gnome because he prefers currently something else? Well then he fell into the trap of KDE by that logic:

https://www.zdnet.com/home-and-office/networking/torvalds-abandons-kde-for-gnome/

There is a pattern you take something small true: "he currently seems to use KDE according to some sources or "switched from gnome" and then you make something totally absurd out of it like somebody tricked him because he is stupid into using gnome, it can't be that preferences chances or with certain updates for his needs gnome was better at some point and kde is better now. Did he loose something because the learning curve for this desktop is so long that he lost all the time he could have knowing kde / plasma better?

Your framings are so absurd...

Also what you think a community projects means, it's a opensource project and if you offer source code that is not core related or very good code for the core they will be thankfully using it. As if KDE would accept 100% of feature requests and Bug reports...

[mxan]

Btw don't get me wrong asking it that way is a trollish way, but that is the internet you pay them no money so are people allowed to be blunt and a bit trollish in their tone? I think so yes. I hate the tone policing and I am nearly happy to hear that with all the feminist BS and Code of Conduct shit that people if they work unpaid at least don't have to talk like a gay person.

I don’t know what this incoherent rant really means, but the code of conduct is basically unenforced. If it actually was enforced, clowns like Emanuele Bassi and Benjamin Otte wouldn’t be allowed to be nearly as nasty and rude as they are.

[MrCooper]

My guess is it will be merged in Gnome 47, because Red Hat didn't want it in RHEL 10, which will use Gnome 46.

You should fire your source of RH-internal info, they're telling you lies.

The main reason for triple buffering not landing in mutter 46 is that Daniel didn't really try to get it merged. Merging this kind of big MR requires pro-active engagement with the maintainers (not all of which are RH employees BTW), as demonstrated by Dor for VRR. I pointed this out to Daniel a while ago.

VRR merge request has been open since March 2020. Four years.
It is ready for at least three years now.

Dor (the VRR MR author) disagreed with you less than 2.5 years ago: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutte...4#note_1331729

(I stopped looking there, I assume there are more recent similar comments)

So the only reason why GNOME doesn't have VRR for years already, IS because the RedHat GNOME devs who run the project simply didn't want to merge it yet.

Myself and others argued for merging it earlier. Dor wanted to take more time.

[mxan]

That is a shameless, bold-faced lie and you know it. Daniel has been nothing but proactive - regularly pointing out all the minor bugs in his own work and actively fixing them, he rebases it himself every cycle, he often asks the Mutter maintainers to merge it - most recently for GNOME 46, but supposedly one of the Red Hat employees who review code was mysteriously “unavailable” this cycle — of course that’s also a lie, if you check his profile, you’ll see that he’s been approving merge requests often, including a few just recently for GNOME 46.rc.

It’s been sitting unmerged since 2020 just like VRR, yet with obviously far more active development than VRR, and the patch is already proven to work in the real world as both Debian and Ubuntu ship it. Saying he’s just not trying hard enough is such a condescending, patronising response. What else can you expect from “we know better than you” GNOME devs.

https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/-/merge_requests/1441

[You-]

VRR merge request has been open since March 2020. Four years.
It is ready for at least three years now. With no changes in those years besides rebasing.

Even following just the merge request comments and not following the rest of the work, you are factually wrong.

I will be kind and say you are probably unaware of the kernel level work to solve some compromises that all implementations of VRR, work that was being done and is being done in parallel. However if this was actually something you cared about, you would know about it.

As for new contributors, mutter is a component with a large featureset that is maintained that is pretty low level. It does take time to figure out all the various levels that need to be touched and considered when adding a feature, which does not make it an easy place for new contributors. However as can be seen by the level of merge requests and review, despite this it is a very healthy component. One of the healthiest even with probably the widest most diverse set of contributors - most other components normally have one or two heavy weights with others pitching in, but mutter has a lot lot more going on.

So it is quite contradictory, it is an old code base which is not easy to contribute to due to its complexity and where merge requests can take a lot of review, spending a lot of time before being merged, but also manages to attract a lot of contributors who seem to understand that and stick it out for a long time.