XDG Top-Level Drag Protocol Approved For Wayland

[DumbFsck]

Lots of us, enthusiasts and developers, have played with Wayland-based systems for years now; long enough to appreciate the reality.

And go ahead and read the Arcan essay. But myself and others have, and while it's someone's favorite movie, to almost everyone who isn't a partisan it's just a treatise, and will never be implemented. DOA, iow. And personally I think it's solving the wrong problem; Wayland was right to yield much of the display stack.

But by all means, wait for your distro if you really have to. Or, if you have the typical Linux curiosity, fire up sway and see. It's tiny.

Yeah, I've read some about Arcan it seems like every year, but never quite got it. It may be because it reads more like philosophy than tech, or maybe it is because I, like you, don't see the issues it tries to solve as actual issues.

I just felt obligated to mention it to preempt a whole line of discussion, by, as you call them, more partisan people.

If my feeling is correct in comparing Wayland to pulseaudio, there might be 20 more years until it's pipewire equivalent comes along. But then again, that is just a feeling I get from all of the pushback a very vocal tiny minority screams from the top of their lungs.

I'll wait for my distro to ship it because nowadays I just want to have my computer to "just work", mostly what I don't want to do is to remove it incorrectly whenever they do ship it (and it lands on a different path, in a different way, has some conflict with the one from the third party repos etc). For now I'm not missing anything it has, but it is one of those "you don't know what you're missing", especially in regards to tearing, so I'll just stay ignorant

[ssokolow]

I'll wait for my distro to ship it because nowadays I just want to have my computer to "just work", mostly what I don't want to do is to remove it incorrectly whenever they do ship it (and it lands on a different path, in a different way, has some conflict with the one from the third party repos etc). For now I'm not missing anything it has, but it is one of those "you don't know what you're missing", especially in regards to tearing, so I'll just stay ignorant

I specifically turn off compositing on my X11 desktops because it tends to be necessary to get the multi-month uptimes I'm used to getting out of X.org and nVidia, so I'll roll back whatever my distro ships, even if that means switching distros, until the Wayland crash recovery story is properly sorted out.

(More or less, until KDE's pending patches for cooperative crash recovery through reconnection get merged into the other toolkits and framework libraries.)

...and yes, nVidia. In fact, I bought a new nVidia card during the most recent Cyber Monday sales because, based on my research, the programs I want to do GPU compute with just aren't there yet on AMD or Intel as far as being something I can trust to work and work reliably.

(Of course, like any responsible "I've got s**t to do" person, I run an LTS distro, rely on Flatpak to bring me anything that needs to be newer, and steer clear of "eager to drop 'legacy' support" Fedora, so I should have plenty of time before I need to make that sort of decision.)

[daemonburrito]

Yeah, I've read some about Arcan it seems like every year, but never quite got it. It may be because it reads more like philosophy than tech, or maybe it is because I, like you, don't see the issues it tries to solve as actual issues.

I just felt obligated to mention it to preempt a whole line of discussion, by, as you call them, more partisan people.

If my feeling is correct in comparing Wayland to pulseaudio, there might be 20 more years until it's pipewire equivalent comes along. But then again, that is just a feeling I get from all of the pushback a very vocal tiny minority screams from the top of their lungs.

I'll wait for my distro to ship it because nowadays I just want to have my computer to "just work", mostly what I don't want to do is to remove it incorrectly whenever they do ship it (and it lands on a different path, in a different way, has some conflict with the one from the third party repos etc). For now I'm not missing anything it has, but it is one of those "you don't know what you're missing", especially in regards to tearing, so I'll just stay ignorant

Right on. I'm admittedly biased about the installation thing, since my work gives me the excuse to perform frequent self-surgery, and I use that popular rolling mostly-binary distribution btw.

I also am not sure if my feeling that expressing very strong opinions about these things requires similar strong diligence is morally okay; when I started on this particular journey (Wayland), I felt like I was standing up for someone in the face of unjustified abuse, similar to speaking out about systemd and Poettering being okay (believe it or not). Maybe it's also got components of being counted, even if it's a minority view, or the chance the someone might read it and not feel completely alone. Or, more grandiose feelings of pushing a Fuller "trim tab" to nudge the zeitgeist, lol. But it's probably getting to be about time for me to quiet down about Wayland, now that the big distros have signaled their direction... I'm not sticking up for an "underdog" anymore (though Wayland really wasn't an underdog, imo).