Firefox 75 On Wayland Now To Have Full WebGL, Working VA-API Acceleration

[birdie]

Resorting to personal attacks when lacking any arguments comes as no big surprise. I'm not the one raging about Wayland being bad design and having nothing to back it up with other than KDE's poor support of it. I thought you were "over and out" and rage quitted, what happened? Then you just came back and resumed trolling without backing up anything you wrote before? Well, once a troll always a troll I guess.

I wasn't talking to you, mr. Why are you even here? I asked the person who was obviously lying to give some proofs. The hell you are replying instead of him? And what about attacking common sense, logic and facts? Is this OK with you? That's what Wayland fan-atics have shown so far in this thread. They keep on lying, lying and lying. According to them/you everything works in Wayland, nothing works in X.org. The fact that 99.9% of distros default to completely "malfunctioning" X.org speaks volumes about your "facts". And, no, your upvoting of one another is not a substitute to valid reasoning. Stating facts is trolling, lying through your teeth is just fine. That's the state of affairs in Linux.

[Hibbelharry]

Your feelings towards Xorg? What about facts? What barely works for you in X.org? What is extremely buggy? What about a ton of issues?

Well, let's talk. Did you ever do display hotplugging? I'm carrying my laptop to multiple places a day: my desk, conference rooms, teammates desks. Whenever I do hotplugging I've to bet it works. It might, but often it doesn't. If the other display has a different dpi ratio, well that's never really working out, but a xserver crash is annoying. We do use thinkpads, which aren't a bad choice as fas as I am and many others are converned, still this just never gets stable, but that's just one of the things which is no more hazzle since switching to wayland. In my experience: it just works, and thats awesome.

I've made quite some of those experiences. Fiddling around with my private htpc and Kodi trying to make movies not being played jerky while a secondary info display (integrated into my htpc case) keeps working. Switching to wayland killed that problem, and I've put quite some effort into modelines before.
Or debugging crashy or slow sessions, which was a huge painat work some time ago. It just went to utter crap performance after a while of usage, for seemingly no reason. Funnily that was never a problem with a single display, but we use dual display desks. You had to disconnect one display to be able to work a whole day, if not the xserver just went ahead and consumed lots of cputime.

God, you're lying through your teeth so hard it's actually amusing. Just a single thing please.

No arguments contained, so let's go on...

And what about all those things which do not work in Wayland right effing now? You bought new HW just to be able to run Wayland? OMG, fanaticism is strong with you.

We did buy smart whenever we had to buy new stuff. And right: We did also swap smaller accounts of cards whenever we felt like it. We're no gamers at work, we also don't do GPU computing. We need to get jobs done. GPUs sized for desktop usage are cheap. Putting manpower into supporting nvidia blob issues also consumed money. We do offer people to chose their favourite distribution and caring for "I installed foobar linux and my Desktop is sloooow" nouveau issues was a pain. Also bleeding edge distros and nvidia legay drivers...

RDP for Linux? A joke is on you: RDP was designed to work with proper GDI/Direct2D environments (where it truly shines), not send full bitmaps all the time. I know how RDP for X11 works under Linux - it's horrible and laughable. Likewise VNC which, if you're lucky, can be loaded as an X.org module but if you aren't, it's slow and inefficient as hell. ssh -X flies in comparison and miles better than VNC and RDP combined because it actually understands what and how is being painted on the screen instead of sending full desktop snapshots all the time.

At first: We've got a mixed linux/windows environment. If you want to remotely connect to windows boxes, well you use remmina, etc. You're right in saying there is no sane RDP server for linux, but that's not my point. VNC is also not that great, but did you ever try to connect to i.e OSX? X2go is pretty nice. You surely know the technology: Take the X11 protocol, remove lots of overhead, compress the stream, use a secure tunnel. Whenever you're in X11 environments it's pretty neat. Just remind this: While nxlibs are modified x11 libs, they're not x11 libs, because libx11 itself is crap in that regards. I'm eager to try new wayland solutions, and there are promising ideas on the horizon, that's one thing that's not there yet. It's just x11 isn't there, too and will never be fixed.

It's all especially pathetic given that I'm sure as hell you've spent literally hundreds of man hours and hundreds of hard dollars just to be able to run Linux semi-efficiently while you could have bought a Windows 10 license for $15 on Ebay and get a perfect experience out of the box. People are amusing. You need a Linux development environment? Discover WSL: everything is available out of the box with 100% compatibility. Apache, PHP, MySQL what gives you. Or Python, RoR, Rust, Go if you're trendy.

No, you're wrong. Sure, Windows licenses are dirt cheap nowadays, but our development environment and development needs don't fit well to windows for the most part. We're doing webapps for the most part, and thats no point where windows does do a good job. Fiddling with node, different php versions, java, git, debuggers and IDEs... If you finally get that working, it's much slower. We never managed to be as effective in the MS world.

I'm curious, on which browser? Firefox on Wayland is buggy and crashy, Chromium based browsers on XWayland are much slower than on Xorg.
I tried the Wayland experience on GNOME 3.34 for a month or so, and IMHO, it's beta quality at most, definitely not production ready.

Chrome doesn't work well for me. I'm kind of a tab warrior, my browser consists of 100 to 300 open tabs at the same time. I just never got used to bookmarks that much, and often need to conserve states of websites. Chrome just can't handle that. I do use chrome for comparisons, but my main work happens in firefox nightlies. Xwayland Firefox does offer no real advantage, I admit, but it's no especially bad experience either. I switched to the wayland backend in firefox some time ago, and I'm quite happy with it. I don't see many crashes, not really anything concerning. I do have some clipboard issues currently which are annoying, gut given the other advantages i'm not switching back currently.

[arokh]

Either you're retarded, or Linux has more than one DE. And so far Gnome is the only semi-usable DE for Wayland - some features still require alpha-quality software like PipeWire. Looks like Wayland fan-atics are even worse than Open Source fanatics.

Resorting to personal attacks when lacking any arguments comes as no big surprise. I'm not the one raging about Wayland being bad design and having nothing to back it up with other than KDE's poor support of it. I thought you were "over and out" and rage quitted, what happened? Then you just came back and resumed trolling without backing up anything you wrote before? Well, once a troll always a troll I guess.

I'm curious, on which browser? Firefox on Wayland is buggy and crashy

I'm using Firefox on Sway and it's stable as a rock for me.

[gedgon]

For my set of workpatterns (heavy browser usage[...]), wayland surpassed xorg a short while ago.

I'm curious, on which browser? Firefox on Wayland is buggy and crashy, Chromium based browsers on XWayland are much slower than on Xorg.
I tried the Wayland experience on GNOME 3.34 for a month or so, and IMHO, it's beta quality at most, definitely not production ready.

[birdie]

Your feelings towards Xorg? What about facts? What barely works for you in X.org? What is extremely buggy? What about a ton of issues? God, you're lying through your teeth so hard it's actually amusing. Just a single thing please. And what about all those things which do not work in Wayland right effing now? You bought new HW just to be able to run Wayland? OMG, fanaticism is strong with you.

RDP for Linux? A joke is on you: RDP was designed to work with proper GDI/Direct2D environments (where it truly shines), not send full bitmaps all the time. I know how RDP for X11 works under Linux - it's horrible and laughable. Likewise VNC which, if you're lucky, can be loaded as an X.org module but if you aren't, it's slow and inefficient as hell. ssh -X flies in comparison and miles better than VNC and RDP combined because it actually understands what and how is being painted on the screen instead of sending full desktop snapshots all the time.

It's all especially pathetic given that I'm sure as hell you've spent literally hundreds of man hours and hundreds of hard dollars just to be able to run Linux semi-efficiently while you could have bought a Windows 10 license for $15 on Ebay and get a perfect experience out of the box. People are amusing. You need a Linux development environment? Discover WSL: everything is available out of the box with 100% compatibility. Apache, PHP, MySQL what gives you. Or Python, RoR, Rust, Go if you're trendy.

[cmakeshift]

--snip--

And because it will be said: Yeah, I lost x11 network transparency foobar, but I was never able to see that as a serious feature. If your link was just slightly bandwidth limited, or had some slight latency, tunneling X11 is just plain slow and ugly. I always used things like freenx/X2go, RDP and VNC if I wanted to do more than 5 clicks. That's the same for many other old features of X11, for my mind these aren't honestly dependable or useful.

So true. X11 passthrough runs like crap compared to any serious VNC-like solution. As long as toolkits draw everything themselves on CPU or even GPU (which is to say, the reality we live in and will live in for the foreseeable future), graphical networking won't ever be something else than a fancy video streaming solution. And as far as streaming solutions go, native X11 forwarding was one of the worst around.

[Hibbelharry]

You're reading this thread and getting the impression that X.org barely works, is buggy as hell and has tons of issues,

That's exactly my feelings about xorg.

I won't say wayland is perfect or that it didn't introduce some new issues, because it did. But I would state that many longstanding issues of any graphical *nix usage get adressed now, and there is a good chance to finally get rid of those. And I feel that many of the issues that wayland introduced already got cured. For my set of workpatterns (heavy browser usage, a lot of ssh sessions, coding and scripting), wayland surpassed xorg a short while ago.

And because this will be said: I did influence some points of my setup to take advantage of the new stuff, like getting all nvidia cards dumped and just buying AMD (desktops)/Intel (notebooks). Me and our team at work also happen to like the gnome3 workflow pretty much, which seems a good place to be nowadays.

And because it will be said: Yeah, I lost x11 network transparency foobar, but I was never able to see that as a serious feature. If your link was just slightly bandwidth limited, or had some slight latency, tunneling X11 is just plain slow and ugly. I always used things like freenx/X2go, RDP and VNC if I wanted to do more than 5 clicks. That's the same for many other old features of X11, for my mind these aren't honestly dependable or useful.

[birdie]

Fixed that for you.

Either you're retarded, or Linux has more than one DE. And so far Gnome is the only semi-usable DE for Wayland - some features still require alpha-quality software like PipeWire. Looks like Wayland fan-atics are even worse than Open Source fanatics.

[gedgon]

Meh, widget.wayland-dmabuf-webgl.enabled just crashes the tab straightaway on any va-api/webgl content on amdgpu.

[arokh]

You're reading this thread and getting the impression that Wayland barely works, is buggy as hell and has tons of issues, while it's really KDE's implementation of it that sucks.

Oh, wait, I shouldn't even comment on stuff that I don't have any insight in and should rather create some KDE bug reports.

Fixed that for you.