Firefox 75 On Wayland Now To Have Full WebGL, Working VA-API Acceleration

[tildearrow]

tildearrow Sorry but that’s entirely up to Redhat and Martin. If they decide to target wayland@gnome then that’s how it is. Meritocracy at its finest.

Redhat got Martin Stransky on Firefox and they got Caolan McNamara on LibreOffice. Pushing gnome@wayland big time.

Don’t like it? Then change it. And please come up with something better than CLA CLA CLA CLA CLA CLA CLA CLA CLA CLA CLA CLA CLA CLA CLA CLA CLA CLA CLA CLA CLA

Yeah but you do not have to mention GNOME. You only want to because of your domination plans.
Come on get your brain right and realize GNOME is not even a meritocracy!!!

I didn't come up with anything, OK? Aren't you the big ego here?!
You basically indirectly told me that the other desktop is garbage.
WHEN GNOME IS THE ONE THAT IS PURE GARBAGE! Seriously you have annoyed me to the point that I would push you off back to your GNOME fanboy club if I could.
Don't even attempt to try to kill the other desktop, OK? You say we are free to use what we want but then you insult the rest! So this actually means that according to you we are not free to...

And I won't delete your post because I mean chocolate won last time so they all think I am doing wrong by preventing GNOME from taking over and destroying Linux desktop!

But I mean, you are so annoying!

[molecule-eye]

Switching between Xorg, and Wayland is not a good solution.

Clipboard managers don't work under Wayland, because they intentionally restrict the access to clipboard contents for (security reasons).

Clipboard managers work on wayland on gnome and sway. Klipper doesn't yet work on wayland on KDE Plasma, but that's their problem to work out.

[birdie]

In Internet slang, a troll is a person who starts quarrels or upsets people on the Internet to distract and sow discord by posting inflammatory and digressive,[1]extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses[2] and normalizing tangential discussion,[3] whether for the his amusement or a specific gain.

I wonder how arguing about very real Wayland issues/shortcomings/concerns and still valid Xorg advantages is trolling. Perhaps you simply don't understand this word and use it against anyone who's disagreeing with you which is very telling and kinda shows what a person you really are. Go call me a troll once again.

I no longer see your posts, so you may as well stop replying to my messages. It's not like you've had anything to say in your last dozen of messages. Name calling, on top of name calling sprinkled with "you don't know or understand anything". So much vanity and inanity.

[birdie]

Actually you were talking to me. If you don't know how to read and comprehend how a forum works properly, might I suggest you go back to school and/or stop calling others retarded? Same goes for calling others fanatics, when you are using the install base of X.org as an argument against Wayland. You've proven to be a raging troll with absolutely zero knowledge of LInux or open source development in general. Congratulations.

That's a lie but you aren't here to have a good argumentation. You see, without this knowledge I couldn't have helped resolve bugs in GCC and kernel and many other projects. And, again you lied when you said I've filed 1.5 kernel bug reports - nope, 129 bug reports. The link I posted earlier was about kernel commits which mention my name and there are ten of them, not 1.5. So, I've helped fix 10 serious bugs in the kernel and reported 119 extra. You're so full of lies, it's despicable.

Meanwhile the rational Wayland proponents in this thread have finally admitted it's not without its own serious issues. You're not among them it's for sure. You keep rejecting everything I've done for open source and you keep calling me a troll:

[arokh]

I wasn't talking to you, mr. Why are you even here? I asked the person who was obviously lying to give some proofs. The hell you are replying instead of him? And what about attacking common sense, logic and facts? Is this OK with you? That's what Wayland fan-atics have shown so far in this thread. They keep on lying, lying and lying. According to them/you everything works in Wayland, nothing works in X.org. The fact that 99.9% of distros default to completely "malfunctioning" X.org speaks volumes about your "facts". And, no, your upvoting of one another is not a substitute to valid reasoning. Stating facts is trolling, lying through your teeth is just fine. That's the state of affairs in Linux.

Actually you were talking to me. If you don't know how to read and comprehend how a forum works properly, might I suggest you go back to school and/or stop calling others retarded? Same goes for calling others fanatics, when you are using the install base of X.org as an argument against Wayland. You've proven to be a raging troll with absolutely zero knowledge of LInux or open source development in general. Congratulations.

[Hibbelharry]

Hibbelharry:
I'm sorry for coming off kinda angry and almost insulting.

Well I think we can agree on removing the almost, I got some F words from you. I don't mind that too much personally, so I'm ok. But if that did anything, then it harmed your own position in the discussion, because others will see rage but no more arguments. That's no good strategy to convince people, but I think you already know that, so let's put an end to that discussion.

I've finished reading your comment: you're running a development shop I get it. You're all IT specialists with a lot of experience and you need a good development environment which is indeed better served by Linux, though I've heard stories that MacOS is also great in this regard but I've never used it.

I'm no OS X guy, I'm glad whenever I get away from it. I never get used to many parts of its design and workflow, and I think the hardware is pretty much overrated and overpriced, for investments in wrong directions. I'm more in the lenovo thinkpad camp: Better Keyboards, being able to swap batteries, good docking, many ports and no adapters,... The only thing apple does way better: Touchpads. These do work really really well, but that's not enough for me to really like their products with all the other pitfalls.

I'm glad Wayland works better for you. It still would be great if you admitted Wayland is just not yet there where you could install it in distro X and everything works beautifully out of the box and you never even think about the fact that you're running it.

True, sometimes I've got to mind that I'm running wayland. But it's the same for xorg! "Can you please present the slides? Horrible things will happen If I'm going to plug that HDMI 4k conference room television to my pc." That's a typical xorg woe for me and colleagues. There are wayland woes too, neither is perfect, but we're now at a point in time, where woes shift: Pain gets more often visible in "xorgland". Sure, thats a new development, but its there, now.

And that's not exactly great given that it's been in development for over 11 years.

Yes, it took a long while, but I don't care too much about that. Relevant points for me are: whats the current situation, where does active development cure problems and put new things on the table? How much does happen on the other side, are they progressing too? Xorg is pretty much dead for me. Some really nasty longtime problems, no activity, no cure. Wayland is much much more promising. Equal share of problems, a lot of activity around it, new features incoming, problems getting less and less.

Again: I might be lucky to like gnome much more than for example KDE, but that's what I see. It's pretty good nowadays.

Speaks volumes about its adoption even though people can realistically code around it.

Adoption was slow for a very long time, but things change. The maturity of wayland changed. A lot of work was needed to get it into shape for normal usage, that work is mostly done for many usecases. The past doesn't dictate the future, as long as people do use their brains, and I see more change coming. That's the beauty of being able to choose, and having choice.

That's far more difficult for other OSes where 100% compatibility with old closed source software is paramount. Microsoft still cannot convince people to start using Windows on ARM64 because x86-64 code translation is not that fast.

Thats a different story. Microsoft changed directions so many times, that they ruin everything achieved time after time after time. They told deverlopers to build UWP Apps, now UWP is dead, dying with EdgeHTML and their store. They killed of Windows Mobile multiple times, they're just not constant and true to their words longtime. Situation is different for wayland.

And I'm glad you've finally admitted that you're having issues in Wayland which are not there in X.org.

Yes, I do. They're just not more annyoing to me than xorg problems I also faced all the time.

[tildearrow]

That's a good way to put it. X11 is everything and the kitchen sync. Drawing API? Check. Fonts? Check. Settings? Check. Remoting? Check. Bitmaps? Check. OpenGL? Uh, sure. Tons of extensions for things that people expect from modern systems? Yeah, they're there.

Does anybody use most of them?
Do they *really* add that much overhead?

Most of them are there just for compatibility with old applications. Why can't you accept that?

Windows still has some APIs that have existed since the Windows 1.0 (1985!) era, and they still do not remove them because compatibility is paramount for them.

Wayland just gives you a window on the screen, an OpenGL context and input events, then gets out of your way. It doesn't care about text rendering or program settings. That makes it more durable in the long run.

I wish at least it was able to provide some information query APIs like to see which windows are open, to open windows/close them/move them/resize them/whatever (like xdotool), window/screen capture (X11 has XSHM and XComposite), screen resolution and clipboard, of course with the user's permission.

And it works. I've been using it for some years now. Does it have support for clipboard managers? No thanks, my DE has enough clipboard bugs as it is. Does it have built-in networking? No, but I'd rather use RDP, VNC, waypipe or even SSH X forwarding than have one implementation baked in.

Yeah it works if you can accept a compositor that crashes every few hours and makes you lose all your work. I have used X.Org for 5 years and it has almost never crashed in my face. In the meanwhile the Wayland compositors have in one or other way.
Yeah it is getting more stable lately but still it's behind.

YES I do need clipboard manager support, OK? I use the clipboard a lot and I hate seeing such an important feature go away in Wayland compositors only because of the excess security.

Most of these things are compositor-specific, and that just pisses me off...

[tildearrow]

Martin Stransky specifically targets wayland@gnome.

General discussions about wayland being ready makes no sense.

Come on, are you trying to insert your GNOME on a Firefox thread? :l

[birdie]

Hibbelharry:

I'm sorry for coming off kinda angry and almost insulting. I've finished reading your comment: you're running a development shop I get it. You're all IT specialists with a lot of experience and you need a good development environment which is indeed better served by Linux, though I've heard stories that MacOS is also great in this regard but I've never used it.

I'm glad Wayland works better for you. It still would be great if you admitted Wayland is just not yet there where you could install it in distro X and everything works beautifully out of the box and you never even think about the fact that you're running it. And that's not exactly great given that it's been in development for over 11 years. Speaks volumes about its adoption even though people can realistically code around it. That's far more difficult for other OSes where 100% compatibility with old closed source software is paramount. Microsoft still cannot convince people to start using Windows on ARM64 because x86-64 code translation is not that fast.

And I'm glad you've finally admitted that you're having issues in Wayland which are not there in X.org.

[birdie]

@Hibbelharry

Again bug reports or you're lying. Each issue I've ever had with Linux is logged and visible. That's why I stopped reading your comment after, "but a xserver crash is annoying". Again, I have a PC with a universally (in the world of Linux fan-atics) hated NVIDIA GPU with proprietary drivers (what a heresy, right, I'm that insane to run Linux with an NVIDIA GPU) and I don't remember the last time X.org has crashed. Yeah, I'm running two displays sometimes. Hot plugging the second one. Everything works. And, no, I've never bought HW specifically for Linux. I still value my sanity over obsessions and bigotry.

Meanwhile you kinda sorta said that X.org has a ton of issues, hardly works and is buggy as hell and I barely see two issues (both of a highly dubious nature since you've failed to provide bug reports). Extreme exaggeration in your case is unfortunately the case of twisting and turning facts in your favor. Sorry, that doesn't work for me. Meanwhile 99.9% of Linux users still run X.org. and most of them have absolutely nothing to say about it because they don't even know it's X.org and not some Linux Graphics Server because "it just works". Not according to this thread. With this I rest my case for the third time in this thread as I expected some actual proofs that Wayland is so incredibly great and X.org is so horribly bad and I haven't got any save for some anecdotal evidence.