Originally posted by 144Hz
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KDE Now Deals With GTK CSD Headerbars - Improving GNOME App Integration On Plasma
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Here's the thing guys: we don't really need to fight over CSD vs SSD anymore. I'm in the "SSD forever" camp (see https://pointieststick.com/2018/12/18/on-headerbars/ if you want to spend an afternoon on this topic), but the point of getting this support in KWin is to make CSD apps look and feel fine in Plasma. CSD apps aren't going anywhere, so we could either fight and make noise and generate friction and irritate our users forever, or we could acknowledge reality and support something that we don't think it optimal. I'm quite happy that we chose the latter.
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Originally posted by ngraham View PostHere's the thing guys: we don't really need to fight over CSD vs SSD anymore. I'm in the "SSD forever" camp (see https://pointieststick.com/2018/12/18/on-headerbars/ if you want to spend an afternoon on this topic), but the point of getting this support in KWin is to make CSD apps look and feel fine in Plasma. CSD apps aren't going anywhere, so we could either fight and make noise and generate friction and irritate our users forever, or we could acknowledge reality and support something that we don't think it optimal. I'm quite happy that we chose the latter.
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Originally posted by 144Hz View PostDecoration freedom is an anti-feature just like init freedom. There’s very good reasons why the industry moved to CSDs.
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Originally posted by Gusar View PostNo, Linux did not move to CSD. The xdg-decoration protocol is part of wayland-protocols, because some devs clearly do recognize the validity of both CSD and SSD. Same with Windows, it provides SSDs to applications that don't draw decorations themselves. Mac has always been Apple's "we know what's best for you and you'll like it", so the exact opposite of any sort of "freedom".
The window manager drawing window decorations is really an X specific thing. Wayland forgoes this because Wayland doesn't have the concept of windows.
macOS decorations are drawn by NSWindow (Cocoa), again apps don't directly talk to the compositor. SDL, Qt etc all under macOS create a NSWindow and draw to it (macOS even provides a OpenGL window context to make this easier). This is the direction GTK seems to want and apps like Firefox do this already.
TLDR: Client-side decoration is the norm outside of the Xorg world. GTK used a non-standard protocol to make it work better under X that KDE now supports.Last edited by Britoid; 01 December 2019, 12:38 PM.
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I had them when I used Nvidia (proprietary drivers), but with that Nvidia card I was fighting to solve it with all the DEs. Avoiding Nvidia was the solution on my desktop, I don't know if this is also your case, but if it were, remember next time to avoid Nvidia. If instead you have an Intel or Amd card, maybe you have been very unlucky.
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Originally posted by tildearrow View PostSee? This could have been a clean conversation, but 144Hz comes with his CSD (secretly pro-GNOME) propaganda and now everyone fights him.
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Britoid Let me provide a practical example: mpv isn't doing anything special on Windows in regards to decorations. It isn't doing anything special on MacOS in regards to decorations. It isn't doing anything special on [insert non-Gnome Linux environment here] in regards to decorations. It's only Gnome/Wayland users that are complaining "mpv doesn't have window decorations". So whatever the underlying implementation details on each system may be, clearly Gnome/Wayland is the outlier, requiring special handling that's not necessary anywhere else. SDL applications are in the exact same position as mpv.
tildearrow Is it just me or is 144Hz giving off a very GhostOfFunks vibe?Last edited by Gusar; 01 December 2019, 01:48 PM.
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